Meditteranean Nations = Cry Babies?

[Mandalore]

So as Spain and Greece finally....FINALLY embrace austerity measures, the Germans are essentially acting as the financiers of their states. There seems to be quite a bit of hatred towards Germany. Why? Do these fools not recognize that without Germany and the other nothern nations financing them that they would stand a good chance of defaulting on their debt within three years? Honestly their terms aren't even that harsh from what I've seen. Hell, if I was Germany and financing them the only reason i would be offering the comparatively low interest rates they're offering is if it came with the promise that Spain and Greece would leave the Eurozone.

[kjeopardy]

So as Spain and Greece finally....FINALLY embrace austerity measures, the Germans are essentially acting as the financiers of their states. There seems to be quite a bit of hatred towards Germany. Why? Do these fools not recognize that without Germany and the other nothern nations financing them that they would stand a good chance of defaulting on their debt within three years? Honestly their terms aren't even that harsh from what I've seen. Hell, if I was Germany and financing them the only reason i would be offering the comparatively low interest rates they're offering is if it came with the promise that Spain and Greece would leave the Eurozone.

I think Minas will have some stuff to say on this one

[Yanoda]

I can't say much about Spain, Minas would be perfect to inform us.

Concerning Greece, this is a bigger issue than Spain.
The problem with Greece is that:
- They offered too many bonuses for politicians and their families. If a politician dies while in office, the spouse and children get welfare for the rest of their lives.
- Greeks dislike paying taxes, so they make actions so that they can avoid paying them. It is known that this is quite rampant.
- Greeks are unwilling to lose a bit of their (major) benefits so they keep making strikes, this just makes the situation worse and the recovery slower.
- The political situation is unstable as far as I know.

The issue with the countries leaving the EU is that this can cause the EU to fall apart (more countries leaving). This would bring Europe back to prior the formation of the European Union. This can slow the European Economy substantially. Many Politicians do not want that to occur as it can lead to Europe further disconnected and reduce their economic power in the Global Market. Prior to the Financial Crisis, the Europe as a whole had the largest economy. The USA, Canada and Mexico combined, were second.

This is what made the US such a financial powerhouse, all the states working together and working for the betterment of the country. If they would separate, the strength of the US will diminish (or even the USA we know it as). "A house divided against itself cannot stand." - Abraham Lincoln

Cheers

Yanoda

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

Idk about crybabies, there is much difference between politicians and the people.

Currently Spain is going terrible, we are going towards a 6Million people that don't have jobs, out of the 27million people that either have or are looking for a job.

The government doesn't know what to do, our taxes went from 16% normal taxes (on purchases) to 21%, taxes on food went from 8 to 18%, taxes on groceries went from 4 to 8%.
Besides this, the government keeps cutting off funds, because they have to pay debts they created.
Hence why in many places of Spain there are protests going on, even petitions to make the country a Republic.

Things can't get much worse here as it is, the more taxes being asked the less people will pay them the more taxes they need to ask.
They want the people to pay up for their mistakes.

I don't care that much, if in the future i can't find a job I'll just go back to my country of origin.

MT

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Thanks for the post Minas....Koko, I would love to hear your thoughts.

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

The problem is that if these countries were stand alone they could avoid defaulting on their debt by "virtually extending their finances". This would be done by printing more money (drachma, lira, paseta, etc.) They could then pay their debt with the newly printed money. The unfortunate repercussion of that would be inflation. Possibly MASSIVE inflation. The politicians could live with that instead of raising taxes on the unemployed.

Germany had a bad experience with this that lead to WWII. They are opposed to ANYTHING inflationary in their very DNA. Not to mention most of the debt accrued by these nations is held by German banks.

What's interesting about Minas' post is that while the TAXES went up, prices on food and other purchases have remained stable or lowered (adjusted for season). If Greece dropped out of the Euro and went back to the drachma prices would go up and no one would be able to afford what they are only having trouble paying for now.

That being said the pain felt in these countries is like ripping the band-aid off the wound slowly instead of quickly. You get a LOT more time to complain about it.

[KOko]

Koko, I would love to hear your thoughts.

Unfortunately I don't have anything to say about issues with Mediterranean Nations...
The last time Bulgaria was ruling Mediterranean lands was arround 9th-10th century - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Bulgarian_Empire

[burzerker]

They show perfectly how the Laffer Curve works, you start demanding too much in taxes then fewer people working, fewer people paying taxes. It certainly doesn't help with countries like Greece that have a huge percentage of public sector employees, especially when they can retire in their 50's. You can already see in France how the wealthy job creators flee, London now has the 6th largest French speaking population in a city. And to think Obama wants to emulate that makes me shake my head.

[(SWGO)Kren]

If you are simply referring to Greece and Spain and a few other bigger counteries then you do not grasp the scale of the issue.

There are millions of people living in poverty across the mediteranean, the following countries that border this area are prime examples:

* Algeria
* Albania
* Turkey
* Morocco

The poverty levels in such places is truly shocking and the monthly income for families is very low.

By asking the question if the Meditteanean Nations = Cry Babies I think you are referring to is the bigger counteries such as Space, Greece, Italy and France in the EU which are seen in the news and not the others that I have been mentioned here. Are the med counteries having a bad time, I would definitely say that's a big 'YES'.

Kren

[NiteRunner81]

This is really disturbing to me as my husband and I are learning Italian so that we (with the help of our friend, Silvia), can get dual citizenship so that we can consider retiring over there. In the area Silvia is from there isn't turds for computer help so my husband can run an at home operation so that we can contribute to the country for the NHS they have.