The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

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The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby Matt-Chicago » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:36 pm

Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.

In fact, he says, the philosophical battle over economics, taxes, debt ceilings and defaults that are now roiling the stock market is partly rooted in an upper class "ideology of self-interest."

“We have now done 12 separate studies measuring empathy in every way imaginable, social behavior in every way, and some work on compassion and it’s the same story,” he said. “Lower class people just show more empathy, more prosocial behavior, more compassion, no matter how you look at it.”

In an academic version of a Depression-era Frank Capra movie, Keltner and co-authors of an article called “Social Class as Culture: The Convergence of Resources and Rank in the Social Realm,” published this week in the journal Current Directions in Psychological Science, argue that “upper-class rank perceptions trigger a focus away from the context toward the self….”

In other words, rich people are more likely to think about themselves. “They think that economic success and political outcomes, and personal outcomes, have to do with individual behavior, a good work ethic,” said Keltner, a professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley.

Because the rich gloss over the ways family connections, money and education helped, they come to denigrate the role of government and vigorously oppose taxes to fund it.

“I will quote from the Tea Party hero Ayn Rand: “‘It is the morality of altruism that men have to reject,’” he said.

Whether or not Keltner is right, there certainly is a “let them cake” vibe in the air. Last week The New York Times reported on booming sales of luxury goods, with stores keeping waiting lists for $9,000 coats and the former chairman of Saks saying, “If a designer shoe goes up from $800 to $860, who notices?”

According to Gallup, Americans earning more than $90,000 per year continued to increase their consumer spending in July while middle- and lower-income Americans remained stalled, even as the upper classes argue that they can’t pay any more taxes. Meanwhile, the gap between the wealthiest and the rest of us continues to grow wider, with over 80 percent of the nation’s financial wealth controlled by about 20 percent of the people.

Unlike the rich, lower class people have to depend on others for survival, Keltner argued. So they learn “prosocial behaviors.” They read people better, empathize more with others, and they give more to those in need.

That’s the moral of Capra movies like “You Can’t Take It With You,” in which a plutocrat comes to learn the value of community and family. But Keltner, author of the book “Born To Be Good: The Science of A Meaningful Life,” doesn’t rely on sentiment to make his case.

He points to his own research and that of others. For example, lower class subjects are better at deciphering the emotions of people in photographs than are rich people.

In video recordings of conversations, rich people are more likely to appear distracted, checking cell phones, doodling, avoiding eye contact, while low-income people make eye contact and nod their heads more frequently signaling engagement.

In one test, for example, Keltner and other colleagues had 115 people play the “dictator game,” a standard trial of economic behavior. “Dictators” were paired with an unseen partner, given ten “points” that represented money, and told they could share as many or as few of the points with the partner as they desired. Lower-class participants gave more even after controlling for gender, age or ethnicity.

Keltner has also studied vagus nerve activation. The vagus nerve helps the brain record and respond to emotional inputs. When subjects are exposed to pictures of starving children, for example, their vagus nerve typically becomes more active as measured by electrodes on their chests and a sensor band around their waists. In recent tests, yet to be published, Keltner has found that those from lower-class backgrounds have more intense activation.

Other studies from other researchers have not produced the clear-cut results Keltner uses to advance his argument. In surveys of charitable giving, some show that low-income people give more, but other studies show the opposite.

“The research regarding income and helping behaviors has always been little bit mixed,” explained Meredith McGinley, a professor of psychology at Pittsburgh’s Chatham University.

Then there is the problem of Tea Partiers’ own class position. While they are funded by the wealthy, many do not identify themselves as wealthy (though there is dispute on the real demographics). Still, a strong allegiance to the American Dream can lead even regular folks to overestimate their own self-reliance in the same way as rich people.

As behavioral economist Mark Wilhelm of Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis pointed out, most people could quickly tell you how much they paid in taxes last year but few could put a dollar amount on how they benefited from government by, say, driving on interstate highways, taking drugs gleaned from federally funded medical research, or using inventions created by people educated in public schools.

There is one interesting piece of evidence showing that many rich people may not be selfish as much as willfully clueless, and therefore unable to make the cognitive link between need and resources. Last year, research at Duke and Harvard universities showed that regardless of political affiliation or income, Americans tended to think wealth distribution ought to be more equal.

The problem? Rich people wrongly believed it already was.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby Corpse » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:15 pm

Matt-Chicago wrote:Psychologist and social scientist Dacher Keltner says the rich really are different, and not in a good way: Their life experience makes them less empathetic, less altruistic, and generally more selfish.



I think this is interesting, but to me it also seems possible that for rich people, a pre-existing dickishness and tendency to be a total [poo] head to others is part of the reason that they're successful, rather than the other way around.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby toad » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:18 pm

What is the dividing line between rich and non-rich? I need to know because it will be a lot easier to judge a person's character by examining their checkbook rather than watching their actions and deeds and possibly coming to a false conclusion.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby Matt-Chicago » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:28 pm

I understand what you're saying Toad and believe me I hate generalizations, stereotypes, and the like, but social studies and data like this can be helpful in understanding the human condition.

What bothers me about many financially successful people is that their money kind of buys psychological validation and in turn they get more like the study shows. They forget that without society at large and government, they would have no wealth.

Like I said in the previous thread along the same lines, it takes everyone to make society work. Nobody makes it on their own, it's impossible in our interconnected world. The market did not create the infrastructure for wealth creation in this country, the government did through public works, the interstate highway system, public education, and the like.

There will always be gaps of opportunity, intelligence, work ethic, luck etc that will allow some people to live extremely luxurious lives while others struggle, but I think human dignity requires society and therefore to a large extent government to do its best to guarantee the basics for everyone like food, clothing, shelter, education, and medical care.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby MATTHEW'S_DAD » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:59 pm

For starters, way to :989: up what your people want you to :989: . I'm not sure what the love affair is with the people to smart to work for a living, but that's something you'll have to figure out for yourself. #2, isn't this guy rich? So, in essence, isn't he referring to himself as an [derriere orifice]? #3, if you actually read Atlas Shrugged without hating it before you opened it, you would realize it wasn't just the rich being invited to Galt's Gulch, it was the ones who worked the hardest and were successful because of it. It was the people who just stand and wait with their hands out that were left behind.

We will never agree Matt, ever. I know that and you know that. Your system of wealth distribution is unsustainable and people like me who go to work everyday will never accept it willingly.
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. - Ben Franklin
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby Matt-Chicago » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:01 pm

MATTHEW'S_DAD wrote:We will never agree Matt, ever. I know that and you know that. Your system of wealth distribution is unsustainable and people like me who go to work everyday will never accept it willingly.


I think it's actually the massive and unprecedented wealth concentration which is unsustainable.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby Duel of Fates » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:14 pm

Matt, there are a-holes in all walks of life. If you think the "rich" have this market cornered, your view is one sided and innacurate. How many "rich" donate money and resources to philanthropic endeavors? Are you including Bill Gates as one of these so called a-holes? Or any of these people?

http://online.barrons.com/article/SB125 ... rticle%3D1

You hate to make generalizations, stereotypes, or blanket accusations, but that is what you did in spades. Pretty sad.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby Corpse » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:18 pm

That isn't what Matt was saying.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby toad » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:29 pm

I am not a big fan of studies that have too large of a group. They have a tendency to be used for social class bashing. In reflection of this study the author should have broken it down further and 115 people is not enough. I would also point out that self made rich people don't fit in the authors "rich people" mold. As for taxing the crap out of rich people I disagree. If you want to get additional taxes punish people who sit on money and close corporate tax holes. As for the T-Party, they have some fundamentally sound ideas that I like. If it wasn't for the fundamentally insane people in the party I might have join up and helped.
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Re: The rich are selfish, antisocial unaware a-holes

Postby toad » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:10 pm

In further reflection of your comments MC I would like to make an additional id-logical difference we may have. I am not a big fan of the utopia idea of social class equilibrium. Nature just does not work that way. I think you understand that through your comment about opportunity gaps. As harsh as it may sound, those gaps are nature's way of rewarding the strong and leaving the weak behind. This doesn't mean I do not agree with you that there are basics society needs that should be filled for everyone. It is just that those gaps will always exist and they have a reason for being there. I would also like to point out that rich people living luxurious lives is move movie like than reality. People who live in that manor have a tendency to die poor. A good reference/analogy I would point towards the studies done on lottery winners.

P.S. For those that don't know, the fun party is in the moderate middle, not with the crazy people on the left or right. :twisted:
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