Election 2016

[Darth Crater]

Hillary. A warhawk? She panders to public opinion and changes her tune when it is convenient. Most politicians are like this to some degree, but she takes it to a whole new level. (why she is not in jail, or indicted yet is beyond me)

Yeah, it's something of a stretch, but some on the left do think that. She did vote for the Iraq war, after all. (I don't buy it, preferring the "blowing in the political wind" theory. Fortunately that seems to be going my way recently.)

Meanwhile: Donald Trump announces he is a literal Nazi. Er, sorry, I mean that he wants to completely ban members of a religion from entering the USA. Even our own citizens overseas.

[Duel of Fates]

Hillary. A warhawk? She panders to public opinion and changes her tune when it is convenient. Most politicians are like this to some degree, but she takes it to a whole new level. (why she is not in jail, or indicted yet is beyond me)

Yeah, it's something of a stretch, but some on the left do think that. She did vote for the Iraq war, after all. (I don't buy it, preferring the "blowing in the political wind" theory. Fortunately that seems to be going my way recently.)

Meanwhile: Donald Trump announces he is a literal Nazi. Er, sorry, I mean that he wants to completely ban members of a religion from entering the USA. Even our own citizens overseas.

Closing borders and stopping immigration in times of war makes one a Nazi? Jeesh, talk about a [m'kay] leap of logic. Somebody doesn't think like me, he must be a Nazi? Wow.

Not defending Trump, but that is the dumbest comment yet.

Bunch of damn Nazis.

[Darth Crater]

Closing borders and stopping immigration in times of war makes one a Nazi? Jeesh, talk about a [m'kay] leap of logic. Somebody doesn't think like me, he must be a Nazi? Wow.

Not defending Trump, but that is the dumbest comment yet.

Bunch of damn Nazis.

Seriously? This isn't the usual partisan banter. This is a far-right, charismatic demagogue publicly announcing that he wants to discriminate against an entire religion. (Of which there are 1.6 billion in the world, 2.6 million in the US, almost none of whom are our enemy.) This is directly against everything that modern America claims to stand for, and it's not hard at all to draw historical parallels with that ideology we fought so hard to destroy.

[WD-40]

Closing borders and stopping immigration in times of war makes one a Nazi? Jeesh, talk about a [m'kay] leap of logic. Somebody doesn't think like me, he must be a Nazi? Wow.

Not defending Trump, but that is the dumbest comment yet.

Bunch of damn Nazis.

Seriously? This isn't the usual partisan banter. This is a far-right, charismatic demagogue publicly announcing that he wants to discriminate against an entire religion. (Of which there are 1.6 billion in the world, 2.6 million in the US, almost none of whom are our enemy.) This is directly against everything that modern America claims to stand for, and it's not hard at all to draw historical parallels with that ideology we fought so hard to destroy.

If keeping an entire religion out saves even one innocent life (not Race necessarily because lots of blacks are Muslim too), is it not worth it? The FBI cannot possibly hope to vett what is un vet table. The Liberal Logic is to do something because 'it feels good', not because it is the right or wrong thing to do. Libs don't give a damn about facts and reality...just their feelings.

[Duel of Fates]

Closing borders and stopping immigration in times of war makes one a Nazi? Jeesh, talk about a [m'kay] leap of logic. Somebody doesn't think like me, he must be a Nazi? Wow.

Not defending Trump, but that is the dumbest comment yet.

Bunch of damn Nazis.

Seriously? This isn't the usual partisan banter. This is a far-right, charismatic demagogue publicly announcing that he wants to discriminate against an entire religion. (Of which there are 1.6 billion in the world, 2.6 million in the US, almost none of whom are our enemy.) This is directly against everything that modern America claims to stand for, and it's not hard at all to draw historical parallels with that ideology we fought so hard to destroy.

2.6 million. 25% of those see nothing wrong with terrorism and killing Americans. That's roughly 650,000 in the USA alone. Probably a higher percentage world wide, but let's say 25%. 400,000,000 who would love to become martyrs for 72 virgins. (Allah is gonna run out of virgins).

So let's open up the borders and immigration to anybody,just because we are nice and want the world to love us. And because we can verify that every one coming into this country is a nice, upstanding member of Islam, not one of those nasty extremists. (its so easy to tell the difference now, they should be easy to spot.) Especially those that do not come here to better themselves and become part of the Society they want to live in, but to destroy it.

They are at war with us, whether the leaders of our country wish to recognize that fact or not. They have been at war with us for years, decades. We need to face the facts and deal with it. Things will not be pretty and fit in the "nice" category.

Are there good Muslims, moderate, modern? Yes. Nicest people I have ever met. But the religion on a whole, has never had a Reformation. The extremists have a much larger voice and influence. Until then...you have a death cult with a huge following.


Do I like Trump? No.

But calling someone a Nazi because they do not share your views or have a different outlook? It's a lame ass attempt to demonize someone without merit.

If I were to agree with some of his ideas, but not all, does that make me a Nazi? A racist? A right wing extremist?

Trump and all of the candidates are jackasses in one form or another. But Nazi? Thought you were better than that Crater.

[Darth Crater]

If keeping an entire religion out saves even one innocent life (not Race necessarily because lots of blacks are Muslim too), is it not worth it? The FBI cannot possibly hope to vett what is un vet table. The Liberal Logic is to do something because 'it feels good', not because it is the right or wrong thing to do. Libs don't give a damn about facts and reality...just their feelings.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." I seem to recall you being a fan of the Bill of Rights, and a hater of oppressive and unconstitutional government actions. (Not to mention that one's religion is the very definition of "unvettable"...)

Look, I get that you're scared. But Trump's policy is exactly what ISIS wants. We react harshly to their extremists, and crack down on all Muslims. That us vs. them mentality will force those peaceful Muslims to align against us. I don't care how Trump's position feels; I can look at historical precedents and see it handing ISIS victory on a platter. We have to recognize these attacks as what they are, little more than statistical background noise, about as deadly as lightning strikes.

2.6 million. 25% of those see nothing wrong with terrorism and killing Americans. That's roughly 650,000 in the USA alone. Probably a higher percentage world wide, but let's say 25%. 400,000,000 who would love to become martyrs for 72 virgins. (Allah is gonna run out of virgins).

So let's open up the borders and immigration to anybody,just because we are nice and want the world to love us. And because we can verify that every one coming into this country is a nice, upstanding member of Islam, not one of those nasty extremists. (its so easy to tell the difference now, they should be easy to spot.) Especially those that do not come here to better themselves and become part of the Society they want to live in, but to destroy it.

Sorry, but that's a strawman argument. I'm fine with the current system, where we accept limited numbers of refugees after a multi-year vetting process. And tourists shouldn't pose any real danger. (Though it would help on that front if they weren't able to get guns as easily over here...)

Got a source on those numbers? Would be interested to see them. Though keep in mind that poll wording can get 25% of people to agree to pretty much anything.

If I were to agree with some of his ideas, but not all, does that make me a Nazi? A racist? A right wing extremist?

Depends. Do you want to discriminate against millions of your fellow citizens, and restrict their rights, based solely on their religion? That's kind of the Nazi Test 101 right there. I'm sure you wouldn't go that far, and I'm not saying that anyone who likes Trump is a Nazi. I'm sure that even most of the people who do agree with him on that just haven't thought it through.

However, I stand by my terminology. I'm just calling the historical parallels like I see them.



BONUS: Other Republican candidates' positions on Trump.

"ridiculous position" - New Jersey Governor Chris Christie
"dangerous overreaction" - businesswoman Carly Fiorina
"offensive and outlandish" - Florida Senator Marco Rubio
"unhinged" - ex-Florida Governor Jeb Bush
"outrageous divisiveness" - Ohio Governor John Kasich
"downright dangerous" - S Carolina Senator Lindsey Graham
"not my policy" - Texas Senator Ted Cruz

[Richard] Cheney also said Trump's proposal "goes against everything we stand for and believe in".

[NiteRunner81]

If keeping an entire religion out saves even one innocent life (not Race necessarily because lots of blacks are Muslim too), is it not worth it? The FBI cannot possibly hope to vett what is un vet table. The Liberal Logic is to do something because 'it feels good', not because it is the right or wrong thing to do. Libs don't give a damn about facts and reality...just their feelings.

WD-40... If you were standing right next to me right now I'd give you a hug, a kiss on the cheek and scream "SOMEBODY GETS IT!!!"

and thats all I have to say on the topic. #sorrynotsorry

[Darth Crater]

Anyone figured out how Trump's proposal could actually be implemented, yet? Even if you ignore the questions of whether we should do it, I'm not convinced excluding Muslims from traveling to the U.S. is possible. Every plan I can think of breaks on the shores of one simple fact - terrorists can lie about their religion.

Not that I think it's a good idea, of course. Let me borrow the words of a certain politician who I feel sometimes gets a bit too much hate: "I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah."

Meanwhile, the Democratic primary is actually getting interesting for the first time in months. Here's a summary. The Democratic National Convention stores data made available to all candidates - voters, volunteers, etc. It also stores privcate data belonging to each individual campaign. A software bug gave staffers for Bernie Sanders' campaign access private files belonging to Hillary's campaign. As a response to this unauthorized data access, the DNC denied Bernie access to the entire database, including things he's storing there.

The fallout for this hasn't fully settled yet. Bernie's campaign sees itself as the victim for having their access cut off, but Hillary is going after him hard, suggesting his campaign broke the law. (While I'm not a lawyer, given what I know about data breaches, this may actually be true.) Expect to see some interesting exchanges about this in tomorrow's debate.

BONUS: Apparently you really can get 25% of people to support pretty much anything on a poll. Even bombing a fictional city.

[WD-40]

Anyone figured out how Trump's proposal could actually be implemented, yet? Even if you ignore the questions of whether we should do it, I'm not convinced excluding Muslims from traveling to the U.S. is possible. Every plan I can think of breaks on the shores of one simple fact - terrorists can lie about their religion.

Not that I think it's a good idea, of course. Let me borrow the words of a certain politician who I feel sometimes gets a bit too much hate: "I also want to speak tonight directly to Muslims throughout the world. We respect your faith. It's practiced freely by many millions of Americans and by millions more in countries that America counts as friends. Its teachings are good and peaceful, and those who commit evil in the name of Allah blaspheme the name of Allah."

Meanwhile, the Democratic primary is actually getting interesting for the first time in months. Here's a summary. The Democratic National Convention stores data made available to all candidates - voters, volunteers, etc. It also stores privcate data belonging to each individual campaign. A software bug gave staffers for Bernie Sanders' campaign access private files belonging to Hillary's campaign. As a response to this unauthorized data access, the DNC denied Bernie access to the entire database, including things he's storing there.

The fallout for this hasn't fully settled yet. Bernie's campaign sees itself as the victim for having their access cut off, but Hillary is going after him hard, suggesting his campaign broke the law. (While I'm not a lawyer, given what I know about data breaches, this may actually be true.) Expect to see some interesting exchanges about this in tomorrow's debate.

BONUS: Apparently you really can get 25% of people to support pretty much anything on a poll. Even bombing a fictional city.

Regarding Bernie's situation, since when do Democrats give a damn about the law? If it was a software bug, that's the Dem National Committee's fault, not his. Interesting, but I think the DNC was just using Bernie for show to lessen the (obvious) appearance that Hillary is 'the chosen one', and has been since the beginning. They also don't want him getting steam like Trump had and shoot out in first place (especially with her legal issues), so they're gonna hurt him and help Hillary, i bet, as much as they can and get away with it. Notice she's been on 'the low down' lately? What do you suppose is going on there?

Update The DNC gave Sanders access again after he got pissed off about it.

Regarding the Trump/Muslim question, unless the Government is 'all in' (including building a viable border fence with proper security oversight), it will be impossible to enforce. They can't do a half-assed job and have the results that was intended. Besides, I believe it would be impossible to prove whether a person in a Muslim, if they're not at least dressing like one or carrying a Koran around, especially if there is no vet-table data on individuals. I'm not 100% sure if true, but I also remember hearing that it is religiously permissible for Muslims to 'lie' to non-believers, even about their religion. I hate to say it, but that's the reality. Especially given the U.S. Governments track record on Border security. Trump may be well-intentioned, but I'd be surprised if it worked if he gets elected. But in politics, what one says today, and what they do tomorrow may be completely different.

[(SWGO)DesertEagle]

I'm souring on Trump more and more, I do not like the Muslim proposal. I see what he is trying to do, and I don't like it. He's being extreme to get attention, and I really don't appreciate that. He is highlighting a major issue, but this is not the way to handle it (doesn't work, makes us look bad, yadda yadda yadda).

Plus his comments about running as a third-party candidate if the RNC isn't "nice" to him, that really ended my support for him. If he's smart and actually cares about "defeating Hillary" he will abstain from doing that. If he doesn't get nominated, that means he doesn't have Conservative support and won't win the election at all.

I'll vote for him if he gets nominated, but it will be a vote against Hillary, not for Trump.

Totally excited about Cruz now, I think he's got a good shot now.