Benghazi "Scandal"

[Hobo]

I just got back and had a full day of work around the house, so I'll need to pick at this a bit per Yan's request to counterpoint his counterpoint of the obvious.

First: Progressives, or the misunderstanding of its history, what it meant to be a 'progressive' in the past, and what one is today vs Liberals.  I will provide the link.  Go there, read it, feel what you feel, believe what you chose to believe or how you decide to understand it all.

http://therionorteline.com/2012/07/30/the-history-of-the-american-progressive-movement-part-i/

Regarding obama's 'accomplishments' from Yan's links, all I saw was a bunch of stuff he signed that has not helped our Nation grow stronger or even maintain its strength one bit.  In fact, we've fallen backward...not forward.  More people are out of work, Obama has outspent Bush in only 4 years for what Bush spent in 8, we are the laughingstock of the world since world leaders know Obama has no spine, and Obama has pissed away Trillions of tax dollars on accomplishing nothing.  He's out of ideas, therefore he's out of hope.  It's time for a new direction away from the 'Big American mistake of 2008'.  Romney will win this November, therefore the United States will win.

Obama disgusts me.  I know for a fact he's a liar.  I will not tell you why I know this.  I do not care whether or not you believe me.  But it is the truth.  Vote your conscience.  I do not care who you vote for, as it's your personal right to chose whom you wish.  God Bless America.

Ok. I've been attempting to evade politics over the internet (this forum, in particular)but I just. can't. take it. All of you Romney fans with your somewhat opinionated styles of debating has really been pushing me over the edge.

You (as well as kjep, MD, etc) really should spend some time looking over Romney's policies. And not just from the social media. They are terrible, and he's been vague about a large portion of the policies in almost every platform that was addressed. He  backed away from his his tax plan during all the debates, refuses to give specific details about any plan he has, but still claims he's a better candidate. It's really quite scummy of him to tell you to vote for him based simply on the fact that he's not Obama, since that's pretty much what he's going on. It's also kind of ironic to call Obama a liar when Romney lied 31 times during Wednesday's debate.

Let's take a look at some of Romney's policies.

Romney Tax Plan


This is what Romney proposed for his tax plan some weeks back:

-Lower tax rates by 20% = $2.5 trillion
-Eliminating the Alternative Minimum Tax = $700 billion
-Repeal of high-income payroll tax = $300 billion
-Repeal the estate tax = $150 billion
-Tax cut for corporations = $1.1 trillion

That's about $5 trillion in tax cuts + interest.

Romney hasn’t specified a single loophole he’d close to pay for these cuts, and he’s said that taking steps that would require the wealthy to pay more, like raising their taxes on capital gains, aren't going to happen. But even if he eliminated all other tax benefits for high-income taxpayers and enough corporate tax loopholes to pay for his plan, he’d still need to increase middle class taxes by $1 trillion to pay for his plan.

-Ending all tax benefits for the wealthy = $1.7 trillion
-Eliminate corporate tax benefits to offset corporate tax cut = $1.1 trillion
-Eliminate enough middle class tax benefits to pay for middle class tax cut = $1 trillion

That's about$4 trillion.

That leaves $1 trillion that Romney must find either by increasing middle class taxes or increasing the deficit.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-02/romney-tax-plan-on-table-debt-collapses-table-.html%5Dhave

Romney wants to end all wind power subsidies
This is a horrible idea. Wind, solar, and electric energy is the future. We can't have Romney retrogress our nation, hindering our nation by cutting funding to industries that generate solar, wind and electric energy. These industries are also run by people, a large number of them too. These are jobs that will be destroyed. By continuing our need of oil, furthering the destruction of the environment, and falling behind the rest of the World's progress in renewable resources, we will continue to hurt our nation. It has been confirmed that he shows absolutely no interest in developing these industries.

And for those of you who think Obama is destroying the oil industry, Domestic oil production this year reached an all time high since 2003.


Romney wants military intervention in Syria as well as stopping Iran from building nuclear weapons.

Yeah, because Americans are just begging for another war in the Middle East. And for what, lower gas prices? I've heard that [poo] before. And while he's at it, why not add two trillion to the defense budget that the military didn't even ask for? Increasing our military budget is the last thing this country needs. 

 Romney wants to throw out Planned Parenthood.

There are no benefits to cutting funding to Planned Parenthood, other than spending a tiny bit less money on the federal budget. In doing that, you increase the amount of money the goverment has to spend on all the repercussions of not educating the public on their reproductive organs and covering their health needs. So you end up spending more money.
If you are pro-life, it's great for a week, as you end up cutting the 3% of money going to abortion related services, along with the other 97% that covers preventative health, cancer screenings, stopping the spread of STDs, etc. By cutting their funding, you actually increase the number of abortions, as their preventative services do a lot to decrease the amount of unwanted pregnancies. 

So you can cut a tiny bit of money and protect the deficit by a minuscule sum, but will end up costing more in the long run, when those in need have to put more burden on the public health system, costing far more in cancer treatments, ER visits, the spread of STDs, unwanted pregnancies, adding burden to the already taxed adoption and social services system, etc.

All because 3% of their money goes to something you do not agree with religiously. Sigh.

This post explains a large part of why I would prefer Obama. (I didn't write this)

I will vote for Barack Obama for three reasons:

1. He has a vastly superior plan to get millions more Americans health insurance. Romney admits that his plan will deny coverage to millions, despite successfully implementing “Romneycare” as governor of Massachusetts. Romney now suggests that insurance should be left up to individual states, as though cancer in Colorado is less financially devastating than it is in North Carolina. This alone highlights a devastating leadership vacuum from Romney. So no thanks. I have kids. And a body, which might get sick one day. I also have a wife, who happens to be a woman. Watching her bring two children into this world has alerted me to a host of medical problems that healthy women regularly face—problems that necessitate a better healthcare solution in this country. And the Affordable Care Act is the beginning of that solution.

2. Obama has a stronger and wider-reaching plan to improve our education system: the thing that makes America go. What will improve our competitiveness with China over the next five, ten, or twenty years? A temporary tax cut on the capital gains of a Bain Capital board member’s grandson’s trust fund or an investment in Pittsburgh public schools today?

3. Whoever is elected will appoint Supreme Court justices. Three of the current justices are in their late seventies and will soon retire. Obama nominated two Supreme Court justices in his first term. Both made decisions that oppose Romney's stated intent for the nation, including the preservation of the Affordable Care Act. In 2009, Sonia Sotomayor, then Obama’s only appointee, also dissented when the Court decided in favor of Citizens United vs. the Federal Election Commission. This has allowed record-smashing sums of corporate cash to poison the campaign landscape. I respectfully disagree with Governor Romney that “corporations are people.” Corporations are made up of people, and I believe that if we take care of people’s concerns first, the corporations will still continue to thrive.

Healthcare and education are far more important to our country's future economic strength than any other issues. Why? Because America is made of Americans. Educate them, make it impossible for their kids' leukemia to bankrupt them, and they will kick ass here and around the globe. Look up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Until Americans have their brains nourished and their bodies cared for better, they will not and cannot care about climate change, human rights, energy independence, or foreign affairs. You start with the foundation! Barack Obama is not perfect, but considering the Affordable Care Act, his education plans, and the looming appointment of more Supreme Court justices, it is both fair and accurate to say that he is monstrously, shockingly more qualified to be the president of this nation I love so very much.

Source

If you decided to read all of that, I hope it has helped you understand more about some of the policies that Romney chooses to have in this country. I also hope you guys aren't voting for Romney simply because you're a Republican. If Romney wins, the middle class loses. Pretty sure Obama will get presidency though, between being more likable than Romney and not being hated by a majority of women.

[CommanderOtto]

yeah you have a good point.

[FaiL.?]

Very good points, Hobo.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Hobo, forget the internet links and talking points, it all means nothing to me. I can search the internet and counter every point just as you can counter my every point. What life experience do you have that compels you to vote Obama over Romney? What personal life experiences do any of the Obama supporters on this board have that is guiding their vote? I'm not saying you don't have any, I would just like to know what they are.

edit - and yeah, I read your entire post.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

And since this thread is about the Benghazi cover up/scandal, who here watched the Bret Baier special last night?



I'm sure some will cry because this is from Fox News.

[kjeopardy]

And since this thread is about the Benghazi cover up/scandal, who here watched the Bret Baier special last night?


I'm sure some will cry because this is from Fox News.

I know. Only MSNBC and CNN are accurate and unbiased

And Hobo, Obamacare is not as nice as it sounds!!! Do you have any clue what its intent is? It's not to help ordinary people gain access to better and cheaper healthcare, it is a poorly disguised plan to redistribute wealth from middle-class people to lower class people.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

And since this thread is about the Benghazi cover up/scandal, who here watched the Bret Baier special last night?


I'm sure some will cry because this is from Fox News.

I know. Only MSNBC and CNN are accurate and unbiased

I like to flip over to MSNBC at least once a week just to keep myself honest, and I swear, I can barely take it sometimes. I will have to say though, I was watching CNN the other night and was surprised at how neutral they seemed to be. It was mainly due to the guests they had on and Piers Morgan was letting them speak their mind and he really offered no counter point. Though I will admit I was half asleep and was having a difficult time understanding Piers, lol he might've been cussing them out. I guess I better go back and re-watch that.

BBC is actually a good source if you want to avoid the rhetoric. The left and right tend to get pissy with them. I'm sure Krenny can set me straight on this (if he dare wade into this thread).

[WD-40]

This post explains a large part of why I would prefer Obama. (I didn't write this)

Let's revisit.

You (as well as kjep, MD, etc) really should spend some time looking over Romney's policies. And not just from the social media. They are terrible, and he's been vague about a large portion of the policies in almost every platform that was addressed. He backed away from his his tax plan during all the debates, refuses to give specific details about any plan he has, but still claims he's a better candidate. It's really quite scummy of him to tell you to vote for him based simply on the fact that he's not Obama, since that's pretty much what he's going on. It's also kind of ironic to call Obama a liar when Romney lied 31 times during Wednesday's debate..

I have looked over his policies, and it is because he has solid business experience, and a proven track record of bi-partisan fairness, displayed a proven record of massive improvement in education as Governor of Massechusetts, has an enormous background in helping others thru financial and personal 'service' to those in need, actually knows what he's talking about (especially in that 1st debate), actually has a record to run on, whereas Obama/Biden are only able to attack the fact that he's wealthy due to successful business and investing...speaking of investing, see below about your 'Green' energy Hero's business and spending skills.

Romney wants to end all wind power subsidies
This is a horrible idea. Wind, solar, and electric energy is the future. We can't have Romney retrogress our nation, hindering our nation by cutting funding to industries that generate solar, wind and electric energy. These industries are also run by people, a large number of them too. These are jobs that will be destroyed. By continuing our need of oil, furthering the destruction of the environment, and falling behind the rest of the World's progress in renewable resources, we will continue to hurt our nation. It has been confirmed that he shows absolutely no interest in developing these industries.

And for those of you who think Obama is destroying the oil industry, Domestic oil production this year reached an all time high since 2003.)

Obama's moratorium on off-shore drilling cost the U.S. Billions in taxes and royalties. It also assisted greatly in jacking up Gas prices all over the U.S. due to overall supply being less in relation to the increase in demand. We may have an all-time high in 'production', but it did not offset the increase in demand.

Romney wants military intervention in Syria as well as stopping Iran from building nuclear weapons.

Yeah, because Americans are just begging for another war in the Middle East. And for what, lower gas prices? I've heard that [poo] before. And while he's at it, why not add two trillion to the defense budget that the military didn't even ask for? Increasing our military budget is the last thing this country needs.

'Intervention' is not war. For lower gas prices?? Duhhhh! Did you not read how Iran has threatened repeatedly to blockade the Gulf of Oman to keep other countries' ships from being able to deliver and export their oil? Do you seriously like high gas prices?? You stop the flow of oil (especially with Obama's interference of home oil production), gas prices will soar much, much higher (i.e. supply vs demand).

Regarding Iran's Nuclear ambitions, did you not read or hear the Iranian President make multiple threats against Israel, along with his wack Ayatollah nations' leaders wanting to wipe them off the face of the Earth?? Do you seriously think that they only want nuclear power plants, and that their having Nuclear Weapons is a good idea?? ONE NUKE dropped on Israel, will start a Nuclear response! It will not end well for anyone, even way over here in the U.S.

I will vote for Barack Obama for three reasons:

1. He has a vastly superior plan to get millions more Americans health insurance. Romney admits that his plan will deny coverage to millions, despite successfully implementing “Romneycare” as governor of Massachusetts. Romney now suggests that insurance should be left up to individual states, as though cancer in Colorado is less financially devastating than it is in North Carolina. This alone highlights a devastating leadership vacuum from Romney. So no thanks. I have kids. And a body, which might get sick one day. I also have a wife, who happens to be a woman. Watching her bring two children into this world has alerted me to a host of medical problems that healthy women regularly face—problems that necessitate a better healthcare solution in this country. And the Affordable Care Act is the beginning of that solution..

At the expense of gutting medicare and robbing billions in funding from it, in addition to the eventual and necessary tax increase on the middle class to also help pay for it. You will find if it continues to exist as it is, more and more companies will send employees into part-time status to avoid having to ensure employees are covered under the Act (its a loophole), so they won't lose massive amounts of money paying for this expensive program. If they didn't have the loophole, employers will ultimately layoff enough workers to compensate.

Doctors will limit their own personal services or shut down office completely. Specialized care will start to dissappear. Parts of this plan have merit, but it can be improved upon to make it work better than what is in the package. It doesn't need to be destroyed, just fixed.

2. Obama has a stronger and wider-reaching plan to improve our education system: the thing that makes America go. What will improve our competitiveness with China over the next five, ten, or twenty years? A temporary tax cut on the capital gains of a Bain Capital board member’s grandson’s trust fund or an investment in Pittsburgh public schools today?..

Is that a serious comment? And what's his plan? Why hasn't it worked (in fact why has it digressed education standards) in the past 4 years?

3. Whoever is elected will appoint Supreme Court justices. Three of the current justices are in their late seventies and will soon retire. Obama nominated two Supreme Court justices in his first term. Both made decisions that oppose Romney's stated intent for the nation, including the preservation of the Affordable Care Act. In 2009, Sonia Sotomayor, then Obama’s only appointee, also dissented when the Court decided in favor of Citizens United vs. the Federal Election Commission. This has allowed record-smashing sums of corporate cash to poison the campaign landscape. I respectfully disagree with Governor Romney that “corporations are people.” Corporations are made up of people, and I believe that if we take care of people’s concerns first, the corporations will still continue to thrive..

I truly believe that is what Romney meant, so you just agreed with him. Remember, he has an immense amount of personal 'service' to people in need, and gives over 30% of his annual income to charities. Regarding Justices, it's a crap shoot. Conservatives have turned Liberal, and vice versa. You never really know what you're going to get until they start voting over time.

Now...my turn on Obama's 'business saavy' (remember...the money lost could have helped pay for the affordable care act, schools, rebuilding communities, welfare, etc) Just an example since you mentioned green jobs (that were lost) and energy:


Failed Green Energy Companies Backed by President Barack Obama

Below is a list of failed energy companies backed by President Barack Obama and funded with tax dollars.

President Obama has gone

to great lengths to support policies to advance so-called green energy technologies but so far has met with utter failure. The

President plans to double down on these unproven, expensive failed technologies if he gets a second term.

President Obama has proven himself to be a rigid ideologue who is unwilling to let go of the failed policies that plagued his

first term. This has many Americans fearful of the future of the United States. As of now there is no technology or renewable

energy on the planet that can lift an airplane off the ground and keep it in the air or propel a cargo ship across the vast

ocean-ways.

List of Failed Obama Green Energy & Solar Companies in the Billions
Sep 11, 2012

Full Obama failed green energy companies list below
Update: October 15, 2012:

Obama Green Investments Said Would Take The Country Forward Are Going Belly Up, Taking Jobs And Taxpayer Cash With Them

-- The Amonix Solar: FAIL! – manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, subsidized by more than $20 million in federal

tax credits and grants given by Obama Administration, has closed its 214,000 square foot facility a year after it opened.

--Solar Trust of America: FAIL! - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012

--Bright Source: FAIL! - Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6

billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Bright Source lost

billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying. Can you say, “This isn’t working Mr. President?”

--Solyndra: FAIL! - Obama gave $500,000,000 (that’s a HALF BILLION!) in taxpayer money to Solyndra who shut its doors and laid off

1100 workers in August 2011 after billions in losses due to failure to make a solar product that works! Barack Obama was not

vetted before being elected President and neither was Solyndra before Mr. Obama threw that taxpayer money down the drain of

unproven technology.

--LSP Energy:FAIL! - LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012

--Energy Conversion Devices: FAIL! – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy

--Abound Solar: FAIL! - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama then announced in June, 2012 that it

would file for bankruptcy. Many of these failed corporations, such as Abound, donated MILLIONS and continue to donate to Barack

Obama’s campaign. Can you say, “Democrat Slush Fund”? Yes this is illegal. But Democrats are being protected from being

prosecuted, for now.

--SunPower: FAIL! - SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of, get this,

oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony? The company is still struggling.

--Beacon Power: FAIL! – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after Obama approved a $43

million Government loan guarantee. They remain barely in business, still struggling to make energy that makes sense or that works

at all.

--Ecotality: FAIL! - ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of

bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from President Obama, who wants to do some more of this

kind of Democrat Slush Fund Guarantees after he is elected to a 2nd term.

--A123 Solar: FAIL! - A123 Solar received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to President Obama’s Department of Energy loan

guarantees even after the Solyndra bankruptcy and is getting another $500M from Obama after a loss of $400M.

--UniSolar: FAIL! - Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20, 2012 after laying off hundreds of workers. UniSolar received

even more Obama money after showing now progress, no profits and is still failing… yet they still remain in business with Obama’s

help.

--Azure Dynamics: FAIL! - Azure Dynamics filed for bankruptcy in June , 2012 wasting millions in Obama “Stimulus” money and received

abatement on taxes owed and and several tax credits. Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US.

Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.

--Evergreen Solar: FAIL! - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money from Obama and filed bankruptcy in late 2011.

Evergreen, which closed its taxpayer-supported Devens factory in March, 2011 cut more than 1800 jobs. Evergreen’s $450 million

factory, turned out to be a colossal “waste” of taxpayer money.

--Ener1: FAIL! Ener1 Inc. received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant from President Obama to make electric-car batteries

but filed for bankruptcy protection January 2012 after defaulting on bond debt.


Update: In May 2012 Obama visited a dusty, desert town 30 miles outside Las Vegas Wednesday to declare he’s doubling down on

failed federal efforts to boost the solar industry which has NEVER proven to produce a single working product. Like Socialism, no

evidence of it works, but they just keep doubling down on the failed ideals!.

Republicans believe Obama is gambling with taxpayer dollars as he continues to aggressively push alternative forms of energy

proven to be more than 20 years off in working effectively and being affordable. After the failure of Solyndra, which resulted in

the loss of half a billion dollars in taxpayer dollars, President Obama is going to give America more of teh same: FAIL.

Obama sharply disagrees and used the world’s largest solar power plant of its kind — with one million solar panels dotting the

desert here — to assert it is his critics who are out of touch with reality.

But None he has backed have succeeded. His record is 0 for 300, rather 0 for $6 Tillion in taxpayer debt.

Two weeks ago, Chairman Upton at the Energy & Commerce Committee began looking into the Department of Energy’s Section 1603 grant

program, a Solyndra-style ‘stimulus’ program that offers cash payments to renewable energy companies. More than $10 billion –

that’s with a ‘b’ – $10 billion has been spent on this, and Secretary Chu said it created ‘tens of thousands of jobs,’ except

there’s no evidence to support that.

“The Energy & Commerce Committee set a deadline for today for the Energy Department & Treasury Department to produce documents or

information about what taxpayers got for their $10 billion. The administration thus far has failed to provide the committee with

any information to justify this claim.” “Listen, the American people continue to ask the question ‘Where are the jobs?’ They

deserve answers and they deserve the truth.”

“Instead of wasting taxpayer dollars on failed ‘stimulus’ programs, we should be working together on common-sense solutions to

expand American energy production and address rising gas prices. With or without the Democrats’ cooperation, Republicans here on

Capitol will continue to work toward this objective.”

Bottom line:

Obama Fail.jpg (22.28 KiB) Viewed 1472 times

I guess maybe we as Americans, should let a 'Businessman' run the Country for awhile, and side-line the Lawyer.

[WD-40]

And since this thread is about the Benghazi cover up/scandal, who here watched the Bret Baier special last night?
I'm sure some will cry because this is from Fox News.

Yes! It was awesome. A slam dunk on the facts on Benghazi.

[Mandalore]

Rofl, the U.S. government also initially lost billions on subsidizing shale companies in the 80s, if I recall correctly. Now look at it.

But in any case, blaming pretty much any economic problem on any world leader is generally a silly argument. Especially oil prices, seeing as they became a traded commodity during the early 00's.

While I'm not a particular fan of Obama, I am also so extremely in favor of meritocracy that any ideological system that promotes segregation of a population immediately loses with me. Meritocracy is more American than anything. Racism, homophobia, creedism, etc is about as un-American as it gets in my opinion.