Benghazi "Scandal"

[Outrider]

What personal life experiences do any of the Obama supporters on this board have that is guiding their vote? I'm not saying you don't have any, I would just like to know what they are.

For me personally, given the question, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" on the scale from 1 to 10, where 1 is a definite no and 10 is a definite yes, I would have to say that I am an 8 or 9. I consider my family part of the working/middle class. I'm currently attending undergraduate school pretty much for free (mostly thanks to the availability of Pell grants) to become a math and science teacher, and the demand for those are pretty high. One of my parents is currently retired and receiving social security benefits. My other parent has a stable job at a medical technology company. And one of my siblings is currently working on an optometry doctorate, and optometrists make a lot of money, so she'll be off to a stable career after that. So yeah, I don't really have anything to complain about in my life. Overall, I don't see why I should vote for anyone else when there is no need to. Call me selfish if you will, but that's how I plan on using my vote since, well, it's mine.

It's not to help ordinary people gain access to better and cheaper healthcare, it is a poorly disguised plan to redistribute wealth from middle-class people to lower class people.

The way I see it, it's meant to recover lost jobs that resulted from employers laying off workers because they could not afford to cover them due to rising healthcare costs. Basically, employers can hire more workers again without having to provide their employees with health insurance since Obamacare would take care of that.

BBC is actually a good source if you want to avoid the rhetoric. The left and right tend to get pissy with them.

RT, PBS, Deutsche Welle, NHK World, France 24, and Al Jazeera are all good, too.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

What personal life experiences do any of the Obama supporters on this board have that is guiding their vote? I'm not saying you don't have any, I would just like to know what they are.

For me personally, given the question, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago?" on the scale from 1 to 10, where 1 is a definite no and 10 is a definite yes, I would have to say that I am an 8 or 9. I consider my family part of the working/middle class. I'm currently attending undergraduate school pretty much for free (mostly thanks to the availability of Pell grants) to become a math and science teacher, and the demand for those are pretty high. One of my parents is currently retired and receiving social security benefits. My other parent has a stable job at a medical technology company. And one of my siblings is currently working on an optometry doctorate, and optometrists make a lot of money, so she'll be off to a stable career after that. So yeah, I don't really have anything to complain about in my life. Overall, I don't see why I should vote for anyone else when there is no need to. Call me selfish if you will, but that's how I plan on using my vote since, well, it's mine.

That's one of the most honest posts I've ever seen here. Thanks for that.

[Hobo]

I tried to keep it short, and it's kind of scrapped together, since I've been a bit busy today. I'll start with the shorter responses. (LOL)

kjep

I know. Only MSNBC and CNN are accurate and unbiased  :lol:

And Hobo, Obamacare is not as nice as it sounds!!! Do you have any clue what its intent is? It's not to help ordinary people gain access to better and cheaper healthcare, it is a poorly disguised plan to redistribute wealth from middle-class people to lower class people.

The intent is to give healthcare to everyone. This has been proven to work with RomneyCare, which is essentially the same thing. I'll agree, it's not perfect, but it is creating a positive impact on our current healthcare situation.

Read this for info on Obamacare and Romneycare and how they are similar.

MD

Hobo, forget the internet links and talking points, it all means nothing to me.  I can search the internet and counter every point just as you can counter my every point.  What life experience do you have that compels you to vote Obama over Romney?  What personal life experiences do any of the Obama supporters on this board have that is guiding their vote?  I'm not saying you don't have any, I would just like to know what they are.

Well a friend of mine with skin cancer should be eligible for treatment in 2014, since it was a "pre-existing condition". And why aren't my points of any value? I can understand if you believe some websites aren't credible, but some are linked to the actual agency that release the report. (such as the oil link, which came from the eia.)

And since this thread is about the Benghazi cover up/scandal, who here watched the Bret Baier special last night? 



I'm sure some will cry because this is from Fox News.

:,(


WD-40

This post explains a large part of why I would prefer Obama. (I didn't write this)

I was referring to the quoted paragraph towards the bottom of my post.

Let's revisit.

http://grist.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/bingaman-gas-1.jpg?w=705&h=651

Indeed

You (as well as kjep, MD, etc) really should spend some time looking over Romney's policies. And not just from the social media. They are terrible, and he's been vague about a large portion of the policies in almost every platform that was addressed. He backed away from his his tax plan during all the debates, refuses to give specific details about any plan he has, but still claims he's a better candidate. It's really quite scummy of him to tell you to vote for him based simply on the fact that he's not Obama, since that's pretty much what he's going on. It's also kind of ironic to call Obama a liar when Romney lied 31 times during Wednesday's debate..


I have looked over his policies, and it is because he has solid business experience, and a proven track record of bi-partisan fairness, displayed a proven record of massive improvement in education as Governor of Massechusetts, has an enormous background in helping others thru financial and personal 'service' to those in need, actually knows what he's talking about (especially in that 1st debate), actually has a record to run on, whereas Obama/Biden are only able to attack the fact that he's wealthy due to successful business and investing...speaking of investing, see below about your 'Green' energy Hero's business and spending skills.

Yes, Romney knew exactly what he was talking about in the 1st debate, especially since his entire plan was to be aggressive and lie about a large portion of the policies he claims to not have. (His tax plan is one example.) After the second debate, when both candidates realized that being aggressive = victory, this 3rd one is going to be a death-match.

Romney wants to end all wind power subsidies
This is a horrible idea. Wind, solar, and electric energy is the future. We can't have Romney retrogress our nation, hindering our nation by cutting funding to industries that generate solar, wind and electric energy. These industries are also run by people, a large number of them too. These are jobs that will be destroyed. By continuing our need of oil, furthering the destruction of the environment, and falling behind the rest of the World's progress in renewable resources, we will continue to hurt our nation. It has been confirmed that he shows absolutely no interest in developing these industries.

And for those of you who think Obama is destroying the oil industry, Domestic oil production this year reached an all time high since 2003.)

Obama's moratorium on off-shore drilling cost the U.S. Billions in taxes and royalties.  It also assisted greatly in jacking up Gas prices all over the U.S. due to overall supply being less in relation to the increase in demand.  We may have an all-time high in 'production', but it did not offset the increase in demand.

This  suspension you're talking about had to do with an oil spill, correct? Unless I'm mistaken,this is what you're talking about. The reason Obama enacted this suspension was to create "new rules that tighten standards for well design, blowout preventers, safety certification, emergency response and worker training." It's necessary to be mindful of safety precautions to protect workers, and prevent oil spills that would otherwise hurt our environment. 

And domestic oil production has nothing to do with price. Here's a nifty graph:


As you can see, oil prices are set on a global scale. Domestic oil production doesn't do jack to whatever price those goofballs at OPEC want to set. Here's another graph:


What you see here is the clear distinction between U.S. oil production and gasoline price. See any correlation? Cause I don't.

Romney wants military intervention in Syria as well as stopping Iran from building nuclear weapons.

Yeah, because Americans are just begging for another war in the Middle East. And for what, lower gas prices? I've heard that [poo] before. And while he's at it, why not add two trillion to the defense budget that the military didn't even ask for? Increasing our military budget is the last thing this country needs.

'Intervention' is not war.  For lower gas prices??  Duhhhh!  Did you not read how Iran has threatened repeatedly to blockade the Gulf of Oman to keep other countries' ships from being able to deliver and export their oil?  Do you seriously like high gas prices??  You stop the flow of oil (especially with Obama's interference of home oil production), gas prices will soar much, much higher  (i.e. supply vs demand).

Sending U.S. soldiers isn't going to lower gas prices. That's ridiculous. A blockade will raise gas prices, I agree with this. However, Iran is unlikely to blockade Hormuz. All they will do is blow up a ton of hot air and make empty threats. There's too much international pressure for Iran go through with this.

Regarding Iran's Nuclear ambitions, did you not read or hear the Iranian President make multiple threats against Israel, along with his wack Ayatollah nations' leaders wanting to wipe them off the face of the Earth??  Do you seriously think that they only want nuclear power plants, and that their having Nuclear Weapons is a good idea??  ONE NUKE dropped on Israel, will start a Nuclear response!  It will not end well for anyone, even way over here in the U.S.

Intervention isn't war, that's correct. However, with Romney's eager state of mind when it comes to using the military to solve problems, this could easily escalate into another conflict. What happened last time a major enemy with nukes threatened us? Well, both sides decided build as many nukes possible and aimed them at each other, and ended up doing nothing. We then had a peace conference with the Soviets which resulted in the deconstruction of many nuclear weapons. Iran isn't going to nuke Israel anytime soon. To do that would mean self-annihilation, courtesy of the U.S. and the rest of the international community.

..So we can either vote Obama in, and most likely experience a cold war with Iran, or we can vote Romney in, and start a military campaign in Iran which would create abysmal relations with a portion of the Middle East, kill off more American lives, and, oh yeah, another heaping of deficit to chew on. But who knows? The video game that will come out after the war is over might be pretty good. 

I will vote for Barack Obama for three reasons:

1. He has a vastly superior plan to get millions more Americans health insurance. Romney admits that his plan will deny coverage to millions, despite successfully implementing “Romneycare” as governor of Massachusetts. Romney now suggests that insurance should be left up to individual states, as though cancer in Colorado is less financially devastating than it is in North Carolina. This alone highlights a devastating leadership vacuum from Romney. So no thanks. I have kids. And a body, which might get sick one day. I also have a wife, who happens to be a woman. Watching her bring two children into this world has alerted me to a host of medical problems that healthy women regularly face—problems that necessitate a better healthcare solution in this country. And the Affordable Care Act is the beginning of that solution..

At the expense of gutting medicare and robbing billions in funding from it, in addition to the eventual and necessary tax increase on the middle class to also help pay for it.  You will find if it continues to exist as it is, more and more companies will send employees into part-time status to avoid having to ensure employees are covered under the Act (its a loophole), so they won't lose massive amounts of money paying for this expensive program.  If they didn't have the loophole, employers will ultimately layoff enough workers to compensate.

Doctors will limit their own personal services or shut down office completely.  Specialized care will start to dissappear.  Parts of this plan have merit, but it can be improved upon to make it work better than what is in the package.  It doesn't need to be destroyed, just fixed.

So why does Romneycare work so well in Massachusetts? They are strikingly similar.  Both leave in place the major insurance systems: employer-provided insurance, Medicare for seniors and Medicaid for the poor. They seek to reduce the number of uninsured by expanding Medicaid and by offering tax breaks to help moderate income people buy insurance. People are required to buy insurance or pay a penalty, a mechanism called the "individual mandate." And companies that don't offer insurance have to pay fines, with exceptions for small business and a few other cases.

2. Obama has a stronger and wider-reaching plan to improve our education system: the thing that makes America go. What will improve our competitiveness with China over the next five, ten, or twenty years? A temporary tax cut on the capital gains of a Bain Capital board member’s grandson’s trust fund or an investment in Pittsburgh public schools today?..

Is that a serious comment?  And what's his plan?  Why hasn't it worked (in fact why has it digressed education standards) in the past 4 years?

Completely serious. In the long run, a temporary tax cut isn't going to do much 15 years from now as opposed to an investment in public schooling.

Barrack's plan

"Barack Obama and Joe Biden believe that our kids and our country can’t afford four more years of neglect and indifference. At this defining moment in our history, America faces few more urgent challenges than preparing our children to compete in a global economy. The decisions our leaders make about education in the coming years will shape our future for generations to come. Obama and Biden are committed to meeting this challenge with the leadership and judgment that has been sorely lacking for the last eight years. Their vision for a 21st century education begins with demanding more reform and accountability, coupled with the resources needed to carry out that reform; asking parents to take responsibility for their children’s success; and recruiting, retaining, and rewarding an army of new teachers to fill new successful schools that prepare our children for success in college and the workforce. The Obama-Biden plan will restore the promise of America’s public education, and ensure that American children again lead the world in achievement, creativity and success.

Early Childhood Education:

Zero to Five Plan: The Obama-Biden comprehensive "Zero to Five" plan will provide critical support to young children and their parents. Unlike other early childhood education plans, the Obama-Biden plan places key emphasis at early care and education for infants, which is essential for children to be ready to enter kindergarten. Obama and Biden will create Early Learning Challenge Grants to promote state Zero to Five efforts and help states move toward voluntary, universal pre-school.

Expand Early Head Start and Head Start: Obama and Biden will quadruple Early Head Start, increase Head Start funding, and improve quality for both.
Provide affordable, High-Quality Child Care: Obama and Biden will also increase access to affordable and high-quality child care to ease the burden on working families.

K-12

Reform No Child Left Behind: Obama and Biden will reform NCLB, which starts by funding the law. Obama and Biden believe teachers should not be forced to spend the academic year preparing students to fill in bubbles on standardized tests. They will improve the assessments used to track student progress to measure readiness for college and the workplace and improve student learning in a timely, individualized manner. Obama and Biden will also improve NCLB's accountability system so that we are supporting schools that need improvement, rather than punishing them.

Support High-Quality Schools and Close Low-Performing Charter Schools: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will double funding for the Federal Charter School Program to support the creation of more successful charter schools. The Obama-Biden administration will provide this expanded charter school funding only to states that improve accountability for charter schools, allow for interventions in struggling charter schools and have a clear process for closing down chronically underperforming charter schools. Obama and Biden will also prioritize supporting states that help the most successful charter schools to expand to serve more students.

Make Math and Science Education a National Priority: Obama and Biden will recruit math and science degree graduates to the teaching profession and will support efforts to help these teachers learn from professionals in the field. They will also work to ensure that all children have access to a strong science curriculum at all grade levels.

Address the Dropout Crisis: Obama and Biden will address the dropout crisis by passing legislation to provide funding to school districts to invest in intervention strategies in middle school -- strategies such as personal academic plans, teaching teams, parent involvement, mentoring, intensive reading and math instruction, and extended learning time.

Expand High-Quality Afterschool Opportunities: Obama and Biden will double funding for the main federal support for afterschool programs, the 21st Century Learning Centers program, to serve one million more children.
Support College Outreach Programs: Obama and Biden support outreach programs like GEAR UP, TRIO and Upward Bound to encourage more young people from low-income families to consider and prepare for college.

Support College Credit Initiatives: Barack Obama and Joe Biden will create a national "Make College A Reality" initiative that has a bold goal to increase students taking AP or college-level classes nationwide 50 percent by 2016, and will build on Obama's bipartisan proposal in the U.S. Senate to provide grants for students seeking college level credit at community colleges if their school does not provide those resources.

Support English Language Learners: Obama and Biden support transitional bilingual education and will help Limited English Proficient students get ahead by holding schools accountable for making sure these students complete school.

Recruit Teachers: Obama and Biden will create new Teacher Service Scholarships that will cover four years of undergraduate or two years of graduate teacher education, including high-quality alternative programs for mid-career recruits in exchange for teaching for at least four years in a high-need field or location.

Prepare Teachers: Obama and Biden will require all schools of education to be accredited. Obama and Biden will also create a voluntary national performance assessment so we can be sure that every new educator is trained and ready to walk into the classroom and start teaching effectively. Obama and Biden will also create Teacher Residency Programs that will supply 30,000 exceptionally well-prepared recruits to high-need schools.
Retain Teachers: To support our teachers, the Obama-Biden plan will expand mentoring programs that pair experienced teachers with new recruits. They will also provide incentives to give teachers paid common planning time so they can collaborate to share best practices.

Reward Teachers: Obama and Biden will promote new and innovative ways to increase teacher pay that are developed with teachers, not imposed on them. Districts will be able to design programs that reward with a salary increase accomplished educators who serve as a mentors to new teachers. Districts can reward teachers who work in underserved places like rural areas and inner cities. And if teachers consistently excel in the classroom, that work can be valued and rewarded as well.

Higher Education

Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service.

Simplify the Application Process for Financial Aid: Obama and Biden will streamline the financial aid process by eliminating the current federal financial aid application and enabling families to apply simply by checking a box on their tax form, authorizing their tax information to be used, and eliminating the need for a separate application.

Support Students with Disabilities: Obama and Biden will work to ensure the academic success of students with disabilities by increasing funding and effectively enforcing the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, and by holding schools accountable for providing students with disabilities the services and supports they need to reach their potential. Obama and Biden will also support Early Intervention services for infants and toddlers, and will work to improve college opportunities for high school graduates with 
disabilities."

3. Whoever is elected will appoint Supreme Court justices. Three of the current justices are in their late seventies and will soon retire. Obama nominated two Supreme Court justices in his first term. Both made decisions that oppose Romney's stated intent for the nation, including the preservation of the Affordable Care Act. In 2009, Sonia Sotomayor, then Obama’s only appointee, also dissented when the Court decided in favor of Citizens United vs. the Federal Election Commission. This has allowed record-smashing sums of corporate cash to poison the campaign landscape. I respectfully disagree with Governor Romney that “corporations are people.” Corporations are made up of people, and I believe that if we take care of people’s concerns first, the corporations will still continue to thrive..

I truly believe that is what Romney meant, so you just agreed with him.  Remember, he has an immense amount of personal 'service' to people in need, and gives over 30% of his annual income  to charities.  Regarding Justices, it's a crap shoot.  Conservatives have turned Liberal, and vice versa.  You never really know what you're going to get until they start voting over time.

The way he worded that can generally be taken either way, so let's hope Romney isn't trying to weasel his way out by phrasing that vaguely.

Now...my turn on Obama's 'business saavy' (remember...the money lost could have helped pay for the affordable care act, schools, rebuilding communities, welfare, etc)  Just an example since you mentioned green jobs (that were lost) and energy:

Failed Green Energy Companies Backed by President Barack Obama

Below is a list of failed energy companies backed by President Barack Obama and funded with tax dollars.

President Obama has gone to great lengths to support policies to advance so-called green energy technologies but so far has met with utter failure.  The 

President [Obama] plans to double down on these unproven, expensive failed technologies if he gets a second term.

President Obama has proven himself to be a rigid ideologue who is unwilling to let go of the failed policies that plagued his first term. This has many Americans fearful of the future of the United States.   As of now there is no technology or renewable energy on the planet that can lift an airplane  off the ground and keep it in the air or propel a cargo ship across the vast ocean-ways.

List of Failed Obama Green Energy & Solar Companies in the Billions 
Sep 11, 2012  

Full Obama failed green energy companies list below
Update: October 15, 2012:

Obama Green Investments Said Would Take The Country Forward Are Going Belly Up, Taking Jobs And Taxpayer Cash With Them

-- The Amonix Solar: FAIL! – manufacturing plant in North Las Vegas, subsidized by more than $20 million in federal tax credits and grants given by Obama Administration, has closed its 214,000 square foot facility a year after it opened.

--Solar Trust of America: FAIL! - Filed Bankruptcy in Oakland, CA, April 3, 2012

--Bright Source: FAIL! - Bright Source warned Obama’s Energy Department officials in March 2011 that delays in approving a $1.6 billion U.S. loan guarantee would embarrass the White House and force the solar-energy company to close. Bright Source lost billions of dollars but is getting more money to keep trying. Can you say, “This isn’t working Mr. President?” 

--Solyndra: FAIL! - Obama gave $500,000,000 (that’s a HALF BILLION!) in taxpayer money to Solyndra who shut its doors and laid off 
1100 workers in August 2011 after billions in losses due to failure to make a solar product that works! Barack Obama was not vetted before being elected President and neither was Solyndra before Mr. Obama threw that taxpayer money down the drain of unproven technology.

--LSP Energy:FAIL! - LSPEnergy LP filed bankruptcy protection and a sale of its assets in Feb 2012

--Energy Conversion Devices: FAIL! – On February 14, 2012 Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. and its subsidiaries filed for bankruptcy

--Abound Solar: FAIL! - Abound Solar received a $400 million loan guarantee from Barack Obama then announced in June, 2012 that it would file for bankruptcy. Many of these failed corporations, such as Abound, donated MILLIONS and continue to donate to Barack Obama’s campaign. Can you say, “Democrat Slush Fund”? Yes this is illegal. But Democrats are being protected from being prosecuted, for now.

--SunPower: FAIL! - SunPower stopped producing solar cells in 2011 at near bankruptcy then restructured with the help of, get this, oil giant TOTAL, Inc. who owns 60% stake in SunPower. Irony? The company is still struggling. 

--Beacon Power: FAIL! – Beacon Power Corp filed for bankruptcy protection in October, 2011 just a year after Obama approved a $43 million Government loan guarantee. They remain barely in business, still struggling to make energy that makes sense or that works at all.

--Ecotality: FAIL! - ECOtality, a San Francisco green-tech company that never earned any money and remains on the verge of bankruptcy after receiving roughly $115 million in two loan guarantees from President Obama, who wants to do some more of this kind of Democrat Slush Fund Guarantees after he is elected to a 2nd term.

--A123 Solar: FAIL! - A123 Solar received $279 million from taxpayers thanks to President Obama’s Department of Energy loan guarantees even after the Solyndra bankruptcy and is getting another $500M from Obama after a loss of $400M.

--UniSolar: FAIL! - Uni-Solar filed for Ch 11 bankruptcy in June 20, 2012 after laying off hundreds of workers. UniSolar received even more Obama money after showing now progress, no profits and is still failing… yet they still remain in business with Obama’s help.

--Azure Dynamics: FAIL! - Azure Dynamics filed for bankruptcy in June , 2012 wasting millions in Obama “Stimulus” money and received abatement on taxes owed and and several tax credits.  Azure Dynamics LLC filed for bankruptcy protection in Canada and the US. Azure laid off 120 of its 160 employees in Oak Park; Boston; Vancouver, British Columbia; and the UK.

--Evergreen Solar: FAIL! - Evergreen Solar received $527 Million in Taxpayer money from Obama and filed bankruptcy in late 2011. Evergreen, which closed its taxpayer-supported Devens factory in March, 2011 cut more than 1800 jobs. Evergreen’s $450 million factory, turned out to be a colossal “waste” of taxpayer money.

--Ener1: FAIL! Ener1 Inc. received a $118 million U.S. Energy Department grant from President Obama to make electric-car batteries 
but filed for bankruptcy protection January 2012 after defaulting on bond debt.

Update: In May 2012 Obama visited a dusty, desert town 30 miles outside Las Vegas Wednesday to declare he’s doubling down on failed federal efforts to boost the solar industry which has NEVER proven to produce a single working product. Like Socialism, no evidence of it works, but they just keep doubling down on the failed ideals! Republicans believe Obama is gambling with taxpayer dollars as he continues to aggressively push alternative forms of energy proven to be more than 20 years off in working effectively and being affordable. After the failure of Solyndra, which resulted in the loss of half a billion dollars in taxpayer dollars, President Obama is going to give America more of the same: FAIL.

Obama sharply disagrees and used the world’s largest solar power plant of its kind — with one million solar panels dotting the desert here — to assert it is his critics who are out of touch with reality.

But None he has backed have succeeded. His record is 0 for 300, rather 0 for $6 Trillion in taxpayer debt. 

Two weeks ago, Chairman Upton at the Energy & Commerce Committee began looking into the Department of Energy’s Section 1603 grant program, a Solyndra-style ‘stimulus’ program that offers cash payments to renewable energy companies. More than $10 billion – that’s with a ‘b’ – $10 billion has been spent on this, and Secretary Chu said it created ‘tens of thousands of jobs,’ except there’s no evidence to support that.

“The Energy & Commerce Committee set a deadline for today for the Energy Department & Treasury Department to produce documents or information about what taxpayers got for their $10 billion. The administration thus far has failed to provide the committee with any information to justify this claim.” “Listen, the American people continue to ask the question ‘Where are the jobs?’ they deserve answers and they deserve the truth.”

“Instead of wasting taxpayer dollars on failed ‘stimulus’ programs, we should be working together on common-sense solutions to expand American energy production and address rising gas prices. With or without the Democrats’ cooperation, Republicans here on Capitol will continue to work toward this objective.”

I'm a bit confused. I added all the numbers together from your list, and, according to my infallible calculator, the grand total is 1.8902e10. So, with your list, he is 0-15, and 0 to 18,902,000,000 Billion. A bit different than 0 to 300 and 0 to 6 Trillion.

But something tells me your list isn't the full story. Can you share the site that you got this information from? I still plan on answering this, but I just want the full details of Obama's "failures". I hope it's not from http://www.mittromney.com.

[WD-40]

You know, why I even waste my time debating political stuff is beyond me. Its really kinda pointless. I think I shall depart the political threads entirely, as it it is too polarized to settle any issues we discuss, but also not very good for peace of mind. I depart these subjects with: Vote your conciense, and God bless America.

[Hobo]

You know, why I even waste my time debating political stuff is beyond me. Its really kinda pointless. I think I shall depart the political threads entirely, as it it is too polarized to settle any issues we discuss, but also not very good for peace of mind. I depart these subjects with: Vote your conciense, and God bless America.

Well, for me, I learn a lot of interesting things when debating people. Yeah, idealogies probably won't change, and debates can be divisive and shrill, but it does get me energized about public policy and also more educated about the current issues.

[kjeopardy]

You know, why I even waste my time debating political stuff is beyond me. Its really kinda pointless. I think I shall depart the political threads entirely, as it it is too polarized to settle any issues we discuss, but also not very good for peace of mind. I depart these subjects with: Vote your conciense, and God bless America.

Well, for me, I learn a lot of interesting things when debating people. Yeah, idealogies probably won't change, and debates can be divisive and shrill, but it does get me energized about public policy and also more educated about the current issues.

I see your point, debates do not usually change you opinion what they do is give you a different outlook on what you already know.

BTW: Chart of gas prices in 2005 USD




And Obama Talking about what gas prices were so low when he came into office:

yet as you can see gas was about the same price if not cheaper throughout Bush's term. I am not defending Bush all I am saying is that Obama's answer is bogus.

Another example of his evasiveness comes from his speech at the DNC in 2008:

I know this is kinda irrelevant bu the irony is very amusing.

Lastly, We are talking about Barack Obama who repeatedly campaigns on the fact that Gov. Romney has no plan with infantile remarks such as "Romnesia":
Skip to 1:35

This is just idiotic we need a president who will talk about policy not just amuse crowds with witty remarks.

Once again I'm not saying Romney is the ideal choice, all I'm saying is we have given Obama a chance and he has not make good on the promises he made last time around, therefore we have no reason to believe this time will be any different. We need change, hence we should vote for Romney the same way we voted for Obama.

Best,
Kjeopardy

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

All i can say is, different continents same [poo].
It doesn't Mather who's voted at this point, one person makes a debt, the next will have to pay it.
The government is just pumping money into dying project, or stupid ideas, they created a gigantic debt during the good times, and now in this crisis they want the people to pay for their mistakes.

It's fairly pointless at this stage, even if Obama loses, i can bet the next person won't be any better, he'll just make up some dumb excuses about why he can't get things done.
And he'll keep making up excuses for the next 4 years, and after that he'll start making new promises in the hope the people give him another 4 years to actually do them.

How many politicians have said they will make the pay for woman's equal to men? and how many countries have this?
All BS just to get up the big chair and start hoarding money in.

MT

[Darth Crater]

This is just idiotic we need a president who will talk about policy not just amuse crowds with witty remarks.

If this was your belief, you would not be voting for the candidate who is literally incapable of explaining his so-called fiscal policy. Well, not that you'll be voting anyway. You get what I meant.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Some of you need to get a career and a mortgage and go experience life. Until then, you're not going to "get it". Keep believing all the crap you see on tv and read on the internet. You go ahead and vote what makes you feel cool and maybe one day your secret will be safe when you guys grow up and have to pay some bills.

Hobo, it's not my responsibility to pay for your friends skin cancer. That's just as simple as it gets. We've had our share of huge medical bills and you know what? Nobody helped us, we cut back on spending and worked through it. I didn't get any help and I didn't WANT any help, I took care of it my damn self. So since no one else seems to have any real life experiences to sway their vote for Obama, I guess it just a trendy thing to do. Those of us trying to make sure the lights come on tomorrow will vote for Romney. The rest of you I guess can just keep hoping that the lights will indeed come on.

There's doer's and there's talkers....ask yourself, what am I?

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

This is just idiotic we need a president who will talk about policy not just amuse crowds with witty remarks.

If this was your belief, you would not be voting for the candidate who is literally incapable of explaining his so-called fiscal policy. Well, not that you'll be voting anyway. You get what I meant.

I guess you won't be addressing my question then? I want to know what in your life is driving your vote. It's a simple question.