Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

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Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby Mandalore » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:10 pm

From Matthew 19 KJV. Not sure if this is one of the books originally written in Greek or Aramaic/Hebrew.
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

The follow lines have elicited a lot of debate over the word "needle"

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
[04:25] -SR-Mandalore: who pitches and who catches
[04:29] (SWGO)SWINE*FLU: We'll do it in turns.
[04:30] -SR-Mandalore: That sounds super fair
[04:30] -SR-Mandalore: Do you think other gay couples do that?
[04:30] (SWGO)SWINE*FLU: I reckon so.

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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby CommanderOtto » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:15 pm

Good question Mandy. Let me reserve this space and i'll post what I have to say in a bit.

EDIT:

Ok, first of all, it's important to understand that Jesus Christ had very little time left on earth. So, his main objective was to teach people about God to as many people as possible (Matthew 28:19). In order to do that, he and his disciples had to travel through Israel and had to dedicate a lot of time to this endeavor. In other words, they would have to simply their life as much as possible in order to do this kind of job. This young person decided that he loved his riches more than the privilege of becoming a disciple of Christ. However, that does not mean that it is a requirement to be poor so you can go to heaven or live forever in paradise earth.[/i] For example, there were many rich Christians in the congregation of Ephesus. The apostol Paul did not tell Timothy to say that all the rich Christians should get rid of all of their possessions. Instead he explained to Timothy, referring to the christians in that congregation:

1 Timothy 6:17-19
New International Version (NIV)
17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. 19 In this way they will lay up treasure for themselves as a firm foundation for the coming age, so that they may take hold of the life that is truly life.


Thus, the rich Christians in the congregation were taught to be vigilant of their attitude towards riches. One should not be arrogant or to think that wealth will save you, and one should care for others and strive to do good deeds. As the text explains, the danger of riches is that a person could become arrogant or think of himself as superior than others but that doesn't mean it is bad to have wealth. In fact,1 Timothy 2: 1-4:

1 Timothy 2:1-5
2 First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgiving be made concerning all sorts of men, 2 concerning kings and all those who are in high positions,*+ so that we may go on leading a calm and quiet life with complete godly devotion and seriousness.+ 3 This is fine and acceptable in the sight of our Savior, God,+ 4 whose will is that all sorts of people should be saved+ and come to an accurate knowledge of truth.


So, the Bible itself mentions, it is God's will that all sorts of people should be saved, regardless of origin or social status.
Last edited by CommanderOtto on Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby Hobo » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:19 pm

pfft, all you have to do is put a camel in a needle and you're good to go
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby Bryant » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:39 pm

No, it does not. The eye of the needle is not a sewing needle, but rather the entrance into a city for people to walk through. In order for a camel to get through it would have to basically get on the ground and be pushed through.

By the way, Matthew would have been written in Greek. Also, I would suggest using the NKJV, it is a word-for-word translation like KJV but without the old-english.
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby {(SS)}Cpt. Luke S. » Sat Feb 01, 2014 8:47 pm

I think rich in this case would mean those rich in the world's eyes. God sees necessities as a way of life. People need them to live. Those who have literally everything, (HUGE mansion in the middle of the rockies with an indoor heated basketball court with glass floor and pool beneath it.) You definantly can live without that. it's nice, but you could have used the (billions) of dollars in a different way other than using it all for yourself. If it weren't for greed, the world wouldn't have such devastating poverty. You need a house to live in, you don't need a twelve million dollar car and a private jet.
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby ProfessorDreadNaught » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:16 pm

Definition of rich: "Anyone with more money than I've got."
“The hardest thing to explain is the glaringly evident which everybody has decided not to see.”
“You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.”
"Freedom (n.): To ask nothing. To expect nothing. To depend on nothing."
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby Col. Hstar » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:22 pm

Having money is not wrong.

The bible says God is not partial and that includes those who are rich and those who are poor.

The bible does warn against the pursuit of riches. People who's sole focus is aquiring more money and riches are placing thiose things as a priority in life, and placing greater importance on them then God.

Jesus' illustration about a camel and the eye of a needle shows how hard it will be for those people to adjust their lifestyle from a pursuit of riches to a pursuit of a relationship with god.
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby Mandalore » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:32 pm

Bryant wrote:No, it does not. The eye of the needle is not a sewing needle, but rather the entrance into a city for people to walk through. In order for a camel to get through it would have to basically get on the ground and be pushed through.

By the way, Matthew would have been written in Greek. Also, I would suggest using the NKJV, it is a word-for-word translation like KJV but without the old-english.



I have heard this explanation before, what is the Greek word/phrase used in this instance? You'll have to excuse my questioning since Christians tend to change Scriptural connotation and acceptance every fifty years it feels like. xD
[04:25] -SR-Mandalore: who pitches and who catches
[04:29] (SWGO)SWINE*FLU: We'll do it in turns.
[04:30] -SR-Mandalore: That sounds super fair
[04:30] -SR-Mandalore: Do you think other gay couples do that?
[04:30] (SWGO)SWINE*FLU: I reckon so.

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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby Col. Hstar » Sat Feb 01, 2014 10:37 pm

As opposed to the evolution angle where theories skip steps and become facts right :whistling:
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Re: Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

Postby CommanderOtto » Sat Feb 01, 2014 11:30 pm

Col. Homestar wrote:Having money is not wrong.

The bible says God is not partial and that includes those who are rich and those who are poor.

The bible does warn against the pursuit of riches. People who's sole focus is aquiring more money and riches are placing thiose things as a priority in life, and placing greater importance on them then God.

Jesus' illustration about a camel and the eye of a needle shows how hard it will be for those people to adjust their lifestyle from a pursuit of riches to a pursuit of a relationship with god.



This is much shorter and explains way better. I don't know Greek, but Mandy, if you want to make sure of the real meaning of things, compare 3 or 4 translations of the Bible. They should all have the same information translated by several different organizations. And I respectfully disagree with Bryant. The text is talking about the eye of a needle. But, as you can see in the text, Jesus is giving an illustration.

also, to add to Homestar:

Acts 10:34
34 At this Peter began to speak, and he said: “Now I truly understand that God is not partial,+
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