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Posted: **Mon May 12, 2014 3:47 pm**

Just a few ideas for immigration reform.

*New Immigration Laws*
Be sure to read to the bottom or you will miss the message...

1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.
2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no matt

er how long they are here.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.
6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or any other government assistance programs. Any who are a burden will be deported.
7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.
8. If foreigners come here and buy land, their options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.
9. Foreigners may have NO protests; NO demonstrations, NO waving of a foreign flag, NO political organizing, NO bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.
10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted and, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.

Too strict? The above laws are the current immigration laws of MEXICO. Just some food for thought. :th_a017:

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2014 1:48 am**

Those are all precisely why our country is an economic success versus Mexico. Open exchange of ideas and "common sense" regulation of our borders. Talk about overkill Mexico jeeezz.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2014 7:00 pm**

Duel of Fates wrote:1. There will be no special bilingual programs in the schools.

I would be fine with it, but allowing students to learn a second language would offer them a better opportunity in the future. Offering exchange and bilingual programs allows students to learn more about different cultures and improve relations.
In the end, I think applying this rule would cause more negative versus positive results.

Duel of Fates wrote:2. All ballots will be in this nation's language.
3. All government business will be conducted in our language.
4. Non-residents will NOT have the right to vote no er how long they are here.
5. Non-citizens will NEVER be able to hold political office.

Acceptable.
On #3, I assume it is only for internal/national government business. If other (foreign/neighbor) governments are involved, then the common language should be used (If only 2 governments are involved, then working with two languages should be acceptable).

Duel of Fates wrote:6. Foreigners will not be a burden to the taxpayers. No welfare, no food stamps, no health care, or any other government assistance programs. Any who are a burden will be deported.

A bit extreme imho. I would be a bit more lenient but do not disagree.

Duel of Fates wrote:7. Foreigners can invest in this country, but it must be an amount at least equal to 40,000 times the daily minimum wage.

Why not let foreigners invest any amount of money? Seems more limiting for the market. Unless investing would give the foreigner some extra rights, then a minimum amount should be applied.

Duel of Fates wrote:8. If foreigners come here and buy land, their options will be restricted. Certain parcels including waterfront property are reserved for citizens naturally born into this country.

I disagree on this. This would just ferment the idea of second-class people, cause certain communities to be less inclusive/included and may cause tensions.
I would have the rule that foreigners are allowed to buy any land they want as long as they are legal residents. Non-legal residents will have some restrictions.

Duel of Fates wrote:9. Foreigners may have NO protests; NO demonstrations, NO waving of a foreign flag, NO political organizing, NO bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.

This is restriction of freedom of expression and speech.
If this rule would be applied, then the country and its citizens may not do the same actions about another country or politician(s). If that is not the case, then that is hypocritical.

Duel of Fates wrote:10. If you do come to this country illegally, you will be actively hunted and, when caught, sent to jail until your deportation can be arranged. All assets will be taken from you.

Depends if the cost would be worth it in the end. Jail time, work, and spending resources on searching and catching the illegal immigrant can be costly.

Overall, the rules seem to be very simplified and some are too strict; several different situations and aspects still need to be considered.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2014 8:35 pm**

Comparing a second rate country with the united states isn't really a good comparison. No other country in the world that has the same tradition of immigration that ours has. Only Canada comes close and they certainly don't have as deep a history or on the scale we do.

Immigration is the backbone of our success. Statistically, second Generation immigrants are more likely to start their own businesses as well as to finish college than most demographic sections of the native populace.

Frankly our current immigration policies are quite backwards as well as ideologically. We've seen what a slow growing, aging population does to a country in Japan. The Mexicans are saving our future economy by making our population younger. The antagonism shown to them is quite clearly not helping them assimilate which is a complaint some have of them. Not even your ancestors threw out memories of their home countries as soon as they crossed the border. I'm sixth generation and my family still speaks French on one side and German on the other.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2014 8:54 pm**

9. Foreigners may have NO protests; NO demonstrations, NO waving of a foreign flag, NO political organizing, NO bad-mouthing our president or his policies. These will lead to deportation.

This made me laugh - a violation of our core precepts in order to demonstrate patriotism and distinguish ourselves from a perceived "other?"

On a serious note, I understand the message you attempted to convey here, and, assuming what you've posted is accurate, I think it is interesting. Nevertheless, the summary seems too simplified to be a legitimate expression of Mexican Immigration Law (which is rarely enforced anyways). All the same, I am all for reforming the current path to legal immigration to assuage the exhaustively long process and tightening restrictions on the border, but at some point we have to decide what we want to do for the benefit of society and for the sake of human rights. Because I know an appeal to ethos/pathos won't be good enough for you: Assuming you deported all illegal immigrants, the cost (which would be outrageous btw) would be compounded by the loss of probably around a third of our manual work force. This would destroy the economy overnight. Many of the illegal workers laboring in the US have taxes subtracted from their incomes (Social Security, etc.) but never benefit from them because they aren't legally residents. They do contribute to the community, and I feel as though there should be *some* path to citizenship.

As to the language issue, I don't think the United States can justify imposing an "English-as-the-national-language" Law, as various areas are now dominated by minority-majorities. There's also no need for this - education is done in English or in some cases in mixed-language format. Most signs are printed in English - some in Spanish and some in French. The United States is a diverse country with different people in each region. Hell, as a federalist, you should appreciate that more than anybody - trying to impose uniformity from the national government is a violation of federalist principle.

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2014 11:15 am**

Illegals paying social security? The ones I see working get paid cash.

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2014 1:33 pm**

I read the message at the bottom of your thread in relation to this relating to Mexico.

In my opinion you need to consider some of the following if you are applying this to America:

Immigration was responsible for the creation and development of your nation, radical immigration reformation of this nature is unlikely to happen as it would negatively impact businesses/society, cause increased segregation and would have significant consequences upon your economy.

Trying to existing fix immigration issues which historically have been lacking any formal policies associated immigration integration is quite a significant task considering how many illegal immigrants are living/working within the USA today.

Ultimately you have to consider what constitutes as being an American and how an immigrant can be integrated into society.

Kren

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2014 2:13 pm**

I think Duel was pointing out how [poo] Mexico is towards immigrants and was speculating how it would be received if we treated them as they treat us. As it is now, we are far more generous with our friends to the south of us than they are with us, yet all we hear about is what bastards we are. As an American, it wears on you and you get sick of hearing it and sometimes it's good to remind people of the reality of it.

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2014 4:43 pm**

This is how I see the problems (in addition to what MD said):

First, the argument of 'immigration being America's success' is not well formed. Every country has controlled its own immigration throughout history, including the United States. And no one is saying that immigration should be denied - only putting a stop to illegal immigration.

We're putting Americans on unnaturally long unemployment benefits/welfare. While simultaneously saying that we need illegal immigrants to fill jobs. Not only is this contradictory in nature, but we're creating a lazy society and one that is devoid of motivation. link

Current laws are not being followed. Illegal aliens are not being properly deported, and criminal aliens are being released: link1 link2

Massive tax 'refunds' to illegal aliens - a complete failure of the IRS in regards to illegal immigration. link

Public schools are not allowed to make any inquires that may expose a students undocumented status. Our own laws are setup to protect illegals aliens and the benefits they receive. link

As far as language is concerned, I believe a semi-official language of English is all that's needed. I worked at Disney a few summers ago and one time this lady came up to me speaking some language (that I'd never heard before) fully expecting me to understand and accommodate her. Essentially what would be helpful is a general understanding that English is the expected form of communication, and maybe some form of legal protection for those companies that don't have the resources to accommodate multiple languages.

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2014 5:35 pm**

MD and Bryant go to the head of the class. Glad to see you are still lurking about MD. :twisted:

I had made my post with a huge amount of sarcasm mixed with pertinent facts. I do not think we should follow Mexico's standards regarding immigration. But our politicians seem bent on pushing a "comprehensive" immigration reform that goes off in an entirely different and stupid direction.

First off, we have laws on the books. Unfortunately our El Presidente has decided to exceed his Constitutional powers by instructing his Attorney General, Sir Eric of Holder, to ignore parts of the immigration laws that he doesn't like. For political reasons which I will go into later. These are laws enacted by Congress, and signed by a former president. Even if you do not like the laws, the office of the presidency does not give you the right to ignore and bypass the laws. Then Eric, in his infinite wisdom, tried to instruct the AG's for all of the States to ignore those same laws. Those state AG's that ignored Holder, and are dutifully adhering to their own state laws regarding immigration, I salute you.

So why should we reform the immigration laws if the office of the president, the administration, and the Dept. of Justice will not enforce the laws already ratified? What a waste of money, time, and effort.

The only reason Obama and the Dems want this reform is to curry the favor of what they see as a huge block of potential voters for the future. And the only Reps that are currently backing this want to do the same, thinking they will be labeled anti Mexican immigrant racists if they do not.

Now we are seeing Obama's policies regarding illegal immigrants have numbers to them. How many murderer's, convicted felons, child molesters, kidnappers, and drunk drivers were not deported when caught? How many were put back on the streets of good old America? I am not stating that all immigrants are bad people, they aren't. But why are we allowing these politicians to subvert, ignore the laws on the books for their political gains at the expense of our rights and safety.
And I would suggest that securing the border is the First priority. It is long overdue, and long promised by many politicians who seem to forget that when they hit the DC city limits.

We need reform in immigration, but unfortunately, we have dipwad do nothings that are only interested in keeping the power to themselves and using this as an insurance for future elections. Not many are actually willing to fix the problem.

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