null

[TaTerToT]

Just wanted to add on to this. There is also "Counter-Null" which in my opinion can really save you when going up against experienced players who use null. There are different forms of this but the one I use and think is best is nicknamed "ND (Null Denied) To do this when you dash your opponent, quickly cut left or right to give you breathing room, and when you get to your opponent, quickly turn back in sharply and look directly down. If your dash makes contact with your opponent's side (It's all about the side), your opponent's null will have no affect. Also, faking is a great technique against nulling. There is the "Deception Sprint" which is circling your opponent and cut in and dash when he least expects it. Another I use a lot as a substitute to ND is "Stop-and-Go". Simple as its name is, you sprint towards the nuller, then stop right in front of him breifly, he will null and since your not already at him, your not touched, and it leaves his defense down, then you dash him. With practice these can be very useful. :)

[Eyes Only]

There were a number of very good tutorial videos made by Zbad but seems he pulled em off Youtube now. Pity, one could see what indeed null means. And no, it is not dash or backslash, its entirely different move offen thought to be a glitch in the enjine. Basically put it is well timed single hit (just one left click) that may knock down your opponent.

Not a glitch in the engine, each saber strike has a push property attached to it (defined in the combo file), just enough to stun/trip your opponent. Same deal with the arccaster and force push/pull. "Null" isn't an accurate description for the move, the most accurate word to describe it would be "trip".

Closest response yet, but off the mark. Eyes is correct that it has to do with the "push" effect inherent in any saber attack. The key is the direction of the push in relation to the enemies movement.

It's referred to as a "null" (truely misnamed) because it interrupts a dash or dash attack. Any saber attack that's directed push strikes a dashing (or dash attacking) opponent at a greater than 45 degree angle will immediately stun the dashing opponent. Simply put, the push in your single saber attack is greater than that of the dashing enemy and stuns them. You can still receive damage from the opponents attack, but it is mathematically impossible for him to stun you (kill you, yes..stun, no).

The best way to achieve this is a with a saber attack combined with a slight movement lateral to your opponent just before his dash would contact you. Leggz and i0n would refer to them as "olé" instead of "null" (which is just as nonsensical, but at least it matched the bullfighting visual)

Replace all the words in your post with trip, since stun is a completely different state than tripped.

I havent gone too deep in the way sabers push values react with enemy movement, but to my experience, the direction the enemy is moving seems to be completely irrelevant to whether or not they get tripped. Also, the push value affects the enemy regardless if theyre moving or not, it just doesnt appear to do anything to them. The push values are what prevent you from attacking an enemy who is already attacking you (due to the short stun of the low push value) The speed at which theyre moving seems to be a contributing factor though, and the push value on the sabers seem to behave differently than on an ord. More data will need to be collected about this. It seems though that the push value of the sabers seems to react in a way (multiply or add) with the speed at which youre moving in a direction pushing it past a stun speed limit and sending you into a trip.

In short, if you/the enemy is not moving, their attack will result in a stun (prevent you from attacking/forcing/etc). If you/the enemy are moving at a certain speed, the attack will knock the target down resulting in a "null" (set your state to 10).

[Eyes Only]

Not a glitch in the engine, each saber strike has a push property attached to it (defined in the combo file), just enough to stun/trip your opponent. Same deal with the arccaster and force push/pull. "Null" isn't an accurate description for the move, the most accurate word to describe it would be "trip".

Closest response yet, but off the mark. Eyes is correct that it has to do with the "push" effect inherent in any saber attack. The key is the direction of the push in relation to the enemies movement.

It's referred to as a "null" (truely misnamed) because it interrupts a dash or dash attack. Any saber attack that's directed push strikes a dashing (or dash attacking) opponent at a greater than 45 degree angle will immediately stun the dashing opponent. Simply put, the push in your single saber attack is greater than that of the dashing enemy and stuns them. You can still receive damage from the opponents attack, but it is mathematically impossible for him to stun you (kill you, yes..stun, no).

The best way to achieve this is a with a saber attack combined with a slight movement lateral to your opponent just before his dash would contact you. Leggz and i0n would refer to them as "olé" instead of "null" (which is just as nonsensical, but at least it matched the bullfighting visual)

Replace all the words "stun" in your post with trip, since stun is a completely different state than tripped. AND it doesnt depend on dashing or attacking.

I havent gone too deep in the way sabers push values react with enemy movement, but to my research, the direction the enemy is moving seems to be completely irrelevant to whether or not they get tripped. Also, the push value affects the enemy regardless if theyre moving or not, it just doesnt appear to do anything to them. The push values are what prevent you from attacking an enemy who is already attacking you (due to the short stun of the low push value) The speed at which theyre moving seems to be a contributing factor though, and the push value on the sabers seem to behave differently than on an ord. More data will need to be collected about this. It seems though that the push value of the sabers seems to react in a way (multiply or add) with the speed at which youre moving in a direction pushing it past a stun speed limit and sending you into a trip.

In short, if you/the enemy is not moving, their attack will result in a stun (prevent you from attacking/forcing/etc). If you/the enemy are moving at a certain speed, the attack will knock the target down resulting in a "null" (set your state to 10).

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

Replace all the words in your post with trip, since stun is a completely different state than tripped.

I havent gone too deep in the way sabers push values react with enemy movement, but to my experience, the direction the enemy is moving seems to be completely irrelevant to whether or not they get tripped. Also, the push value affects the enemy regardless if theyre moving or not, it just doesnt appear to do anything to them. The push values are what prevent you from attacking an enemy who is already attacking you (due to the short stun of the low push value) The speed at which theyre moving seems to be a contributing factor though, and the push value on the sabers seem to behave differently than on an ord. More data will need to be collected about this. It seems though that the push value of the sabers seems to react in a way (multiply or add) with the speed at which youre moving in a direction pushing it past a stun speed limit and sending you into a trip.

In short, if you/the enemy is not moving, their attack will result in a stun (prevent you from attacking/forcing/etc). If you/the enemy are moving at a certain speed, the attack will knock the target down resulting in a "null" (set your state to 10).

Respectfully, you miss the point. ANY saber attack can cause a trip. That is one of the purposes of the saber push factor. I say "stun" instead of "trip" because of the other inherent function of a null I neglected to mention (sorry about that). A "null" stops the opponents movement. Completely. What some players mistakenly called a "null" in earlier posts was indeed actually a "trip". The motion and direction of the attacker continues (mostly) in its original direction (with an accommodation for deflection). A proper "null" ceases the enemy movement all together and knocks them down with a full cooldown (set your state to 10) period.

So, to a review, Both a "null" and a "trip" are counterattack moves. "Null" and "Trip" are similar but different results from saber attacks. Here are some identifying traits to help tell the difference:

- "Null" requires an attacker to be in motion and immediately stops that motion knocking the player down and begins a cooldown. Both players can receive damage.

- "Trip" requires an attacker to be in motion and will deflect or augment that motion with the direction of the saber attack push along with any motion of the counter. The defender WILL NOT TAKE DAMAGE. The attacker MUST enter a cooldown.

- "Knock-Down" aka, "flip" aka "juggle" is an offensive move that does NOT require the attacked player enter a cooldown. The attacker WILL NOT TAKE DAMAGE.

- "Photo-finish" aka "Photo-Op" aka "When sparks fly" (I'll save that for another thread)

i0n and several then -{WGO}- members worked this out over several hours of training a couple years ago. It was standard training in the competition clans.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Damn, ya'll need a hobby. oh, wait....nevermind.....

[Eyes Only]

Replace all the words in your post with trip, since stun is a completely different state than tripped.

I havent gone too deep in the way sabers push values react with enemy movement, but to my experience, the direction the enemy is moving seems to be completely irrelevant to whether or not they get tripped. Also, the push value affects the enemy regardless if theyre moving or not, it just doesnt appear to do anything to them. The push values are what prevent you from attacking an enemy who is already attacking you (due to the short stun of the low push value) The speed at which theyre moving seems to be a contributing factor though, and the push value on the sabers seem to behave differently than on an ord. More data will need to be collected about this. It seems though that the push value of the sabers seems to react in a way (multiply or add) with the speed at which youre moving in a direction pushing it past a stun speed limit and sending you into a trip.

In short, if you/the enemy is not moving, their attack will result in a stun (prevent you from attacking/forcing/etc). If you/the enemy are moving at a certain speed, the attack will knock the target down resulting in a "null" (set your state to 10).

Respectfully, you miss the point. ANY saber attack can cause a trip. That is one of the purposes of the saber push factor. I say "stun" instead of "trip" because of the other inherent function of a null I neglected to mention (sorry about that). A "null" stops the opponents movement. Completely. What some players mistakenly called a "null" in earlier posts was indeed actually a "trip". The motion and direction of the attacker continues (mostly) in its original direction (with an accommodation for deflection). A proper "null" ceases the enemy movement all together and knocks them down with a full cooldown (set your state to 10) period.

So, to a review, Both a "null" and a "trip" are counterattack moves. "Null" and "Trip" are similar but different results from saber attacks. Here are some identifying traits to help tell the difference:

- "Null" requires an attacker to be in motion and immediately stops that motion knocking the player down and begins a cooldown. Both players can receive damage.

- "Trip" requires an attacker to be in motion and will deflect or augment that motion with the direction of the saber attack push along with any motion of the counter. The defender WILL NOT TAKE DAMAGE. The attacker MUST enter a cooldown.

- "Knock-Down" aka, "flip" aka "juggle" is an offensive move that does NOT require the attacked player enter a cooldown. The attacker WILL NOT TAKE DAMAGE.

- "Photo-finish" aka "Photo-Op" aka "When sparks fly" (I'll save that for another thread)

i0n and several then -{WGO}- members worked this out over several hours of training a couple years ago. It was standard training in the competition clans.

I still dont see the difference between trip and null other than the words you used to describe them...

- They both stop an enemies movement
- They both are executed in the same way and make use of a moving enemy
- They both cause the attackers state to change to "fallen" and initiate a cooldown

The only real difference you described was moving while swinging or not. I don't think moving while swinging your lightsaber constitutes an entirely different move than standing still while swinging your lightsaber. The lightsaber gets swung, and the attached push value causes your enemy to fall flat on his face. I fear you will have to make an attempt to teach me the difference between the two if I am to fully understand the difference you are so inclined to make known.

[Col. Hstar]

Damn, ya'll need a hobby. oh, wait....nevermind.....

All I know is right click, right click, left click. Of course this probably why I suck at HA so much

Thank goodness for the pull move

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

I still dont see the difference between trip and null other than the words you used to describe them...

- They both stop an enemies movement
- They both are executed in the same way and make use of a moving enemy
- They both cause the attackers state to change to "fallen" and initiate a cooldown

The only real difference you described was moving while swinging or not. I don't think moving while swinging your lightsaber constitutes an entirely different move than standing still while swinging your lightsaber. The lightsaber gets swung, and the attached push value causes your enemy to fall flat on his face. I fear you will have to make an attempt to teach me the difference between the two if I am to fully understand the difference you are so inclined to make known.

Trip does NOT stop an enemies movement. Only Null stops an enemies movement (REQUIRES movement) and causes cooldown.

If I'm dash attacking someone and they backslash me and I go flying, that may be a trip. As long as I am stunned and the backslasher did NOT receive any damage from my attack, it qualifies as a trip.
Some times that backslash attack does NOT cause a cooldown. ie. I'm able to immediately jump out of the redirect. That is NOT a trip. It's a simple Knock-down. Similarly, if I'm not moving, regardless of cooldown, it's not a trip, its a Knock-down. (Nowadays, we look up while backslashing and its a "flip" or a "juggle")

To be a "Null" the enemy must cease the forward motion they had the moment before, they must receive damage and enter a cooldown.

[FaiL.?]

Trip? What's that?

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

I'm actually wonder(i don't know if this has much to do with the "null" itself since it's 1:15AM and i can't be bothered, ill check in the morning )
But how come that with some pushes an oponent is knocked down on the ground and in fact requires to stand up(this alwayes happens when pushing from above and is the only one that works to imobolise bots)
While other pushes cause the player to be trown on the ground an immediatly be ready to counter-attack the moment they aren't in motion anymore? is this due to a bug?
Why unless pushed from above do bots get knocked down? is the bug the bots, or is it a mechanic in the game that does work for the bots but doesn't for the players?

Another thing, this is something iv'e noticed with certain characters, most commonly maul and luke, whenever i'm pushed down on the ground and a player starts either doing his combo or mashing depending on the character he has, i get a chance somewhere in his combo to somehow do a Backslash while being "stunned" and activly taking damage from the attacker, this backslash causes him to trip, kinda fall over me interupting his combo, and then being knocked down.

Now is this a bug/glitch, lag or maybe some kind of exploit?

MT