Equal Rights for the LGBT Community?

[Dad]

I'm curious about something. If gay marriage was allowed, what would the divorce be like? From a legal standpoint, I think it would be a much more even split, barring children.

Could set some legal precedents that will be useful. I have been helping guys get through their divorces and am always looking for new angles.

[Mandalore]

Correction on the assumption of you being European. So let me state this first. You make a post about peoples views on whether gays and lesbians should be allowed to marry which in itself is interesting to discuss but then you throw a hate bomb into the discussion about your dislike for Christians. So since you seem to be ok with painting this picture with such a broad paint brush, would you please give us an example and tell us which Christians discriminate against homosexuals and how is it that they discriminate againt them?

Not sure how it's a hate bomb. A hate bomb would have been "[m'kay] those sanctimonious hypocritical little Christian [poo]. They just can't handle not being the theocrats anymore, you know? [m'kay], they had an entire milennia devoted to burning non-believers but now that non-religious groups are gaining strength you can't say [poo] about them without them crying like a bunch of little [female dog]" That is a hate bomb.
Secondly, Evangelicalism is probably the biggest group in America that discriminates against gays. I know that Pat Robertson's group of Evangelicals stands at around 30 million members which is approximately 10% of the American population. Catholics, Protestants, any other group that takes those bits of scripture literally discriminate against homosexuals. The most glaring form of discrimination is not having equal marriage rights as I covered in my first post as well as having more obstacles in the adoption process.

[mrjamwin]

Again, I ask you this question which you totally diverted. How do they discrimante against them? Marriage isn't just a Christian instituation and neither is adoption. People can easily get married at a Justice of the Peace. Adoption laws weren't create by the Church and thus are created and regulated by the US Government. Oddly enough the Doogie Howser actor and his lover just adopted a child. I wonder how hard it was for them? Saying [poo] about them and discriminating against them are not they same thing. In regards to burning non-believers how come you didn't throw in Muslims? Because if you look into their history and present day you might see that they have many crimes against humanity. I'm pretty sure the last time a Christian executed a gay has been a few centuries. You're hate bomb began against Christians when you said they're deplorable. Let me give you some definitions so you fully understand.


de·plor·a·ble   /dɪˈplɔrəbəl, -ˈploʊr-/ Show Spelled
[dih-plawr-uh-buhl, -plohr-] Show IPA

–adjective
1. causing or being a subject for grief or regret; lamentable: the deplorable death of a friend.
2. causing or being a subject for censure, reproach, or disapproval; wretched; very bad:


hate   /heɪt/ Show Spelled
[heyt] Show IPA
verb, hat·ed, hat·ing, noun
–verb (used with object)
1. to dislike intensely or passionately; feel extreme aversion for or extreme hostility toward; detest: to hate the enemy; to hate bigotry.
2. to be unwilling; dislike: I hate to do it.
–verb (used without object)
3. to feel intense dislike, or extreme aversion or hostility.
–noun
4. intense dislike; extreme aversion or hostility.
5. the object of extreme aversion or hostility.

You statement clearly reveals that you hate Christians and then you make another statement "prepare for the Kriztian assault"

[nobody]

Mariage is disaster - it's my point of view

btw:
If God wanted gays He could create two Adams

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

Don't be naive Mandalore and Jamwin, don't be so forgetful. The KKK to this day routinely "Rolls" gays for fun and in the past 20 years killed several homosexuals (confirmed by conviction) along with their racial activities. Mandalore, Western christianity is 1000% more tolerant than Eastern European, South American and African Christianity. Remember the flap about the Episcopal church anointing an admittedly gay Bishop? In the U.S. it received MUCH wider support than anywhere else. Still you point your most accusatory finger at the most accepting groups. And please don't forget our Islamic brothers in monotheist faith. They have a MUCH more intense policy against homosexuality than ANY U.S. Christian Evangelical (not associated with the KKK or Arian Nation).

That being said, the largest discriminatory group is not religious at all. Its plain old heterosexuals. In general, it is not an act most have tried and is therefore unknown and feared. We shun what we fear. We try to destroy what we don't understand. That is the problem. All the rest is bullspit. I think you know it and have your own agenda against organized religion that you use this issue to scream and shout about. You care less about the solution than to have the issue to bash the people that YOU hate.

[Matt-Chicago]

Maybe this is obvious, but the claim that gays have the same civil rights as heteros is absolutely false.
Included in this is disagreement with Duel about it being a states issue. One problem with that is the federal tax benefits for married couples versus non-married. As long as the law makes a distinction in taxes, insurance, inheritance, etc - this is an equal rights issue which I think should be guaranteed by the federal government.

Many of the same arguments used to be made about interracial marriage. The argument was that Blacks had equal rights to get married, but only to other black people. Obviously that was discrimination because what was to stop to people of different races from falling in love? I think it's the same with gay marriage. Most of the framing here seems to be in terms of sex and reproduction, but what about love?
Living in a big city and being an activist, I know many, many gay people and couples. One couple I know has been together for longer than I have been alive. They clearly love each other, take care of each other, and are as much a couple as anyone. I'd like to see anyone here meet these incredibly kind and lovely people and tell them they shouldn't have the same rights as a couple that you do.

[(SWGO)Kren]

That being said, the largest discriminatory group is not religious at all. Its plain old heterosexuals.

...really so heterosexuals are not religious...mm that's a new one. I think history to the present day might prove you wrong there dread. It has proven throughout history that you do not need to be religious to form a hate campaign however with the approval of a religious group stating such things are against the will of God then the passage to preach hate becomes so much easier to undertake. Religion has been the mechanism that has allowed people use to justify their actions under the banner of their own faith.

There have been many faiths throughout history that have accepted equal rights of gays the only difference was that they did make it an issue as it was an accepted part of their way of life and as such there was no discrimination. Fast forward throughout history to the present day and views have changed to segregate people who don't appear to form part of the norm and this also includes community mentioned in this thread. It has become a problem because acceptance has changed with the evolution of humans as a species. As a species we appear to revel in the ability to create a multitude of rules/regulations/rights to justify what we accept/do with very little thought for those outside of these boundaries until equality is requested to become an accepted part of society by such groups.

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

That being said, the largest discriminatory group is not religious at all. Its plain old heterosexuals.

...really so heterosexuals are not religious...mm that's a new one. I think history to the present day might prove you wrong there dread. It has proven throughout history that you do not need to be religious to form a hate campaign however with the approval of a religious group stating such things are against the will of God then the passage to preach hate becomes so much easier to undertake. Religion has been the mechanism that has allowed people use to justify their actions under the banner of their own faith.

There have been many faiths throughout history that have accepted equal rights of gays the only difference was that they did make it an issue as it was an accepted part of their way of life and as such there was no discrimination. Fast forward throughout history to the present day and views have changed to segregate people who don't appear to form part of the norm and this also includes community mentioned in this thread. It has become a problem because acceptance has changed with the evolution of humans as a species. As a species we appear to revel in the ability to create a multitude of rules/regulations/rights to justify what we accept/do with very little thought for those outside of these boundaries until equality is requested to become an accepted part of society by such groups.

First it is clear you don't understand the distinction I was making. I was pointing out (and you state it also, again without understanding) that you needn't be involved in ANY religious faith to discriminate against homosexuals. The prejudice does not spring from religion but from misunderstanding and fear. I think you would agree that there are more heterosexuals out there than there are practicing religious devotees. That by definition constitutes a larger discriminatory group.

Additionally, I challenge your assertion that "There have been many faiths throughout history that have accepted equal rights of gays..." I don't believe there have been many large, influential religions that did not shun the abnormal. Most religions concern themselves with defining what is right to do and what is not. So many religions take a negative stand on homosexuality. I have stated why I believe this is so. Ignorance and fear. "Evolution of the species" does NOT fix this issue. Only understanding does.

Matt C. brings the argument back to a focus we have left in favor of Religion. He refers back to the question of "right to marry" and the benefits and privileges garnered to those who are married. Perhaps he did not read the initial posts which clearly debunk the idea that marriage is a "right" to which all people are entitled. If it is as I (and U.S. government policy) describe as a government regulated legal partnership, it becomes a question of majority rule as to the guidelines to which someone may enter this legal status. The majority eventually came around to accepting interracial marriage as acceptable behavior. They did not wake up and decide they were denying someone's rights. Educate the majority on the "acceptable" nature of homosexual love and marriage will follow.

You have a "Right" to Love someone, wholeheartedly and unreservedly. You do NOT have a "Right" to marry them.

[Mandalore]

Jamwin, I think Matt answered you concisely in his post.
Dread, I singled out the West because we are, in general, far more liberal and educated than any of the places you mentioned in your post. I will admit that Europe is finally getting on the game and they've had several nations within the past few years pass same-sex marriage laws. The point being here that even with higher education, standards of living, etc many in the West are against homosexual equality based on their faith. Also, I believe it was Argentina that was the first nation in North or South America to have full equality for homosexuals. Mexico also has mandated recognition of homosexual marriages performed in Mexico City with several districts also looking at same-sex marriage laws.
Dread, I challenge you to find two prominent non-religious advocates against homosexual equality. And here's the thing, this country was set up to protect minority rights. Although at the time this was mainly land owning whites, but it still stands that minority rights are to be protected within the country. Hell, if Spain and Argentina can pass same-sex marriage laws then surely the land of the free can do the same.
Rawler...there were only two humans...then they had children...tell me Rawler...where do you think the rest of the human race came from in your belief system?

[Corpse]

from the mothers womb