France Muslim face veil ban?

[mrjamwin]

I agree with many of the valid criticisms of countries like Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, etc.

Personally, I don't like any religion and wish they would all dissipate and eventually disappear.
I still reject the argument of "this other country does something worse, so we're justified in doing xyz..."

Wow Matt, this statement fosters a lot of thought and feelings. So by your own admission you are predjudiced and you hate a certain people groups/religions? I'm merely asking for clarification of your perspective.

[Matt-Chicago]

I agree with many of the valid criticisms of countries like Saudi Arabia, Malaysia, Pakistan, etc.

Personally, I don't like any religion and wish they would all dissipate and eventually disappear.
I still reject the argument of "this other country does something worse, so we're justified in doing xyz..."

Wow Matt, this statement fosters a lot of thought and feelings. So by your own admission you are predjudiced and you hate a certain people groups/religions? I'm merely asking for clarification of your perspective.

Lol Jamwin, no, I don't hate religious people and try not to hold prejudices against them. I know that religion is just one aspect of human beings which are complex creatures. There is more to a person than their faith or lack thereof.

[mrjamwin]

Fair enough. Thank you for clarifying.

[[m'kay]]

I also disagree with you about their motivation being 'wanting to show their devotion to God'. They wear them because it's a LAW in their religion, but especially because their Hubbys or Fathers MAKE them wear them. I know, if they had a CHOICE, they'd not wear the head covers, just so they can show the world just how absolutely stunningly beautiful Middle-Eastern women truly are! How do I know? Because I've seen countless drop-dead gorgeous Middle-Eastern Women in various locations of the Middle East where the LAW is a bit more relaxed, especially in the Western-Friendly Islamc Nations...and they are beautiful!

You are wrong on so many levels. It is only a LAW as you so put it when the Taliban have control of the area, and they make the women wear the burqas. They don't allow the niqabs. There is a large difference between the two; the burqa is generally a sign that the Taliban have control of an area, and yes they are forced to wear it then. The niqab however, is something that muslim women who are faithful wear to show their submission to Allah. Don't presume that other cultures think the same way we do; hell there are Muslim girls in my school that wear the niqab proudly.

[WD-40]

I also disagree with you about their motivation being 'wanting to show their devotion to God'. They wear them because it's a LAW in their religion, but especially because their Hubbys or Fathers MAKE them wear them. I know, if they had a CHOICE, they'd not wear the head covers, just so they can show the world just how absolutely stunningly beautiful Middle-Eastern women truly are! How do I know? Because I've seen countless drop-dead gorgeous Middle-Eastern Women in various locations of the Middle East where the LAW is a bit more relaxed, especially in the Western-Friendly Islamc Nations...and they are beautiful!

You are wrong on so many levels. It is only a LAW as you so put it when the Taliban have control of the area, and they make the women wear the burqas. They don't allow the niqabs. There is a large difference between the two; the burqa is generally a sign that the Taliban have control of an area, and yes they are forced to wear it then. The niqab however, is something that muslim women who are faithful wear to show their submission to Allah. Don't presume that other cultures think the same way we do; hell there are Muslim girls in my school that wear the niqab proudly.

Dude..I dont 'presume' jack. I have 'travelled' the world over the past 25 years in the Navy and as an agent/pilot to know! Don't preach to me ok? Travel the Muslim world sometime as I have on MANY occasions...I really don't give a flying crap what happens with Muslim dress code in your 'singular' highschool!..Good Gawd! ... I'm done with this stupid thread as of now.

[[m'kay]]

You said that if they had a choice that they would not wear the niqabs. I said that in my high school where they DO have a choice, they do. You then proceeded to throw a little hissy fit. Argue constructively or get out.

[WGO-Jango]

Burqas are a part of several Islamic sects traditional customs concerning the dress of women in public. The Quran address the covering of a women's face and body in public but does not address it as religous practice but more as a way for women to behave morally and modestly. While some communities have laws that require all women to be veiled but the laws only apply to certain sects and it's only binding in certain sects depending on the relation of an individual to the scholar who issued the interpretation.

France has been working in a veil ban for quite some time, not for security reasons but for integration reasons. Women who violate the ban are fined $200 and must attend re-education classes. Men who force women to wear the veils are fined 41,000+ and are sentenced to 1 year in prison. France isn't the first nation to issue a veil ban, Belgium was, but they are the first to pass and enforce one.

Facts aside I'm amazed but not surprised this bill came to law. I'm amazed that the French government deemed a ban on veils ,what several consider a religious custom, but not surprised it passed as these Islamic immigrants are moving into a largely Christian dominated society. The banning of the veils does remove one source of oppression of women in Islamic culture and encourages more free expression, something we hold dear in western society. At the same time I feel very uncomfortable about laws being passed that target a specific group of people. I've been trying to find information that explains how the banning of veils will help Muslims integrate better or faster or whatever they want them to do. Banning an article of clothing simply because you think someone will integrate better without it seems like a pretty stupid basis for a law.

Someone let me know if they find or have any information as to how the French government thinks banning veils will help with the integration of Muslim please share.

[mrjamwin]

Burqas are a part of several Islamic sects traditional customs concerning the dress of women in public. The Quran address the covering of a women's face and body in public but does not address it as religous practice but more as a way for women to behave morally and modestly. While some communities have laws that require all women to be veiled but the laws only apply to certain sects and it's only binding in certain sects depending on the relation of an individual to the scholar who issued the interpretation.

France has been working in a veil ban for quite some time, not for security reasons but for integration reasons. Women who violate the ban are fined $200 and must attend re-education classes. Men who force women to wear the veils are fined 41,000+ and are sentenced to 1 year in prison. France isn't the first nation to issue a veil ban, Belgium was, but they are the first to pass and enforce one.

Facts aside I'm amazed but not surprised this bill came to law. I'm amazed that the French government deemed a ban on veils ,what several consider a religious custom, but not surprised it passed as these Islamic immigrants are moving into a largely Christian dominated society. The banning of the veils does remove one source of oppression of women in Islamic culture and encourages more free expression, something we hold dear in western society. At the same time I feel very uncomfortable about laws being passed that target a specific group of people. I've been trying to find information that explains how the banning of veils will help Muslims integrate better or faster or whatever they want them to do. Banning an article of clothing simply because you think someone will integrate better without it seems like a pretty stupid basis for a law.

Someone let me know if they find or have any information as to how the French government thinks banning veils will help with the integration of Muslim please share.

Jango, France at one time was a Christian society but they are more secular now and that's the direction the government is heading. Christianity had no influence in France's government decision in the making of this law.

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

This thread is so one dimensional. Entertaining, but you don't employ enough critical thinking to find the UNDERLYING issues. What does the law do? Think of ALL the advantages and disadvantages that come from implementing (or just proposing) such a law. Brainstorm and try listing them. This thread could REALLY get somewhere.

One reason for the law no one has brought up, but I think it has a HUGE hidden psychological effect: "Those people are allowed to hide from Big Brother!"

Everywhere you go, especially in tourist heavy Western Europe, Big Brother is watching. Video Cameras are everywhere. Automatic weapon wielding police and para-military watch the comings and goings of countless up-standing citizens. Why do these mainly good law-abiding folk have to be subjected to such scrutiny and invasions of personal privacy? For security. Is anyone exempt from this invasion? Hmmmm.

THAT is the reason this bill was passed (and that it passed by a majority vote). Subtle psychology.

[mrjamwin]

This thread is so one dimensional. Entertaining, but you don't employ enough critical thinking to find the UNDERLYING issues. What does the law do? Think of ALL the advantages and disadvantages that come from implementing (or just proposing) such a law. Brainstorm and try listing them. This thread could REALLY get somewhere.

One reason for the law no one has brought up, but I think it has a HUGE hidden psychological effect: "Those people are allowed to hide from Big Brother!"

Everywhere you go, especially in tourist heavy Western Europe, Big Brother is watching. Video Cameras are everywhere. Automatic weapon wielding police and para-military watch the comings and goings of countless up-standing citizens. Why do these mainly good law-abiding folk have to be subjected to such scrutiny and invasions of personal privacy? For security. Is anyone exempt from this invasion? Hmmmm.

THAT is the reason this bill was passed (and that it passed by a majority vote). Subtle psychology.

You are bonafide idiot. That is not the reason the bill was passed. When will you get your arrogant head out of your butt O'Great One? Talking down to the people here accusing us of one dimensional thinking as if you're capable of anything more.