Why MT doesn't believe in this.

[Darth Crater]

Different tack from the creationists' this time in ignoring my wittle thoughtz.

The creation of a God is far more complex and has a lower probability of occurring than even the creation of the universe. And also it really depends on your definition of "something." I believe the CERN labatory in Europe has created "anti-matter" which if you consider er as "something" is literally "nothing." Given that we have only been able to create comparatively small amounts of it in a laboratory and it has not been discovered outside of a laboratory (our space exploration is complete [poo]) we can't truly speak as to whether anti-matter created the universe as we know it.
Regardless, "God" is not the answer as the involvement of one creates a far larger and more complex problem than it solves. Quite unfortunate really.

Antimatter is not "nothing". It's just a different kind of "something". It's been observed all over the universe. How could it have had anything to do with creating the universe as we know it? Again, not sure where you're going with this...

Now, if you're looking for unsolved mysteries to explain with religion, "where's all the antimatter" might be a good one. We think there should have been equal amounts of antimatter and er formed, and don't know where the antimatter went.

[WD-40]

Antimatter is not "nothing". It's just a different kind of "something". It's been observed all over the universe. How could it have had anything to do with creating the universe as we know it?
Now, if you're looking for unsolved mysteries to explain with religion, "where's all the antimatter" might be a good one. We think there should have been equal amounts of antimatter and er formed, and don't know where the antimatter went.

Anti-matter is very, very bad Matter, that is pure Evil. And it resides in the Underworld.

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

@Mandy

1. Nothing popped out of nowhere,example Deuteronomy 33:27 "god is eternal"
Definition of eternal: Being without beginning or end, the only other thing i could name eternal is time.

Every humans must have heared once in his life "once upon a time" where do we get the time from? ever heared of once upon a time there was time?

2. The original expression, "a land flowing with milk and honey", is a reference in the Hebrew Bible to the agricultural abundance of the Land of Israel< yes copy and wiki paste since you all love to do so.
3. The "jewish people" where "chosen" yet the bible does have A LOT of paragraphs describing there was a pact, and the people needed to keep on their part of the pact to be chosen, yet they did not.
Judges 10:13 As for YOU, YOU abandoned me and took up serving other gods. That is why I shall not save YOU again.
I still have to find the final text of god saying he finnally ended the pact and that the jews are no longer the chosen people

@Crator

What the expirment showed in my eyes is that by ussing natural components of that time, inteligent life AKA humans where able to recreate a simple cell following the pattern of this cell, what you simply do is calculate the posiblities of this pattern happening without any help.
So what humans prooved is that inteligent life can create/recreate life
As far as all the odds, iv'e only stated the odds of a protein molecule comming ramdomly are roughly 1/1.000.000.000.000.000
Also note that in the expiriment in 1953 there were only 13 of the 21 basic (amino acid) building blocks of protein molecules.

Besides this it is calculated that ramdom RNA has a chance of 1/10 40th to being created ramdomly, wich is if i'm not mistake again 1/10 with 39 0 behind it
The chances of these 2 comming on the same place on earth well, i didn't find these odds but if you calculate that the earth is 508.45 million square kilometers, wich is 50845000 million square CM aka 50845000000000 square CM on wich both the RNA and Proteins had to come to existance in 1 of those 50845000000000 Square Cm's meaning on the same Square CM...
So you have 1/billion for Protein, you have 1/10 to the 40th for RNA then you have 1/50845000 Million on the location, wich is even harder since the RNA must be on the same location as the proteins in that little pond of water and this calculation over the square CM is too much for my brain atm.
So imagen crator that all of these odds were beaten, what do you get? a simple cell, not a complex one, science must still proove how a simple cell naturally evolves into a complex one, and the missing link between animals and men still has to be found.

Also about the protein theory, amino acids disolve aka break down in water, then how did they get to create a protein molecule in water since a protein molecule is based on amino acids.
Now please compare these odds and the part where amino acids fail in water to either the theory where something created us, or the theory that humans do not yet know how life came to be.

@Atoms

The air i was talking about was the space between the atoms, and FYI that was meant to be a joke, as rediculous as life being simulated, no offence i don't believe this is the matrix.

@The nesspresso machine

Yes yanoda it sounds rediculous, yet with people that do believe in evolution, iv'e talked about the odds, and after checking the odds anyone here cannot believe that the evolution theory is right, however this doesn't make them believe that god created us, they do however believe humans have still to figuere it out.

MT

[Darth Crater]

I'm not disputing the size of your numbers. I'm just claiming that in relation to the scale of the universe, they're still pretty small. (also, you multiply by the number of square CM, not divide, and you need to take into account time)

Anyway, considering the three options you seem to be presenting:
A: Life was formed when the right conditions were reached somewhere for amino acids, proteins, cells, etc to form.
B: Life was formed in some other way that we don't know.
C: An intelligence created life.

B isn't actually an option, so much as it is "not A". It doesn't present a credible alternative for A, so we can disregard it. A and C are not mutually incompatible; that is, accepting C shouldn't automatically rule out A, and vice versa.

[Yanoda]

Yes yanoda it sounds rediculous, yet with people that do believe in evolution, iv'e talked about the odds, and after checking the odds anyone here cannot believe that the evolution theory is right, however this doesn't make them believe that god created us, they do however believe humans have still to figuere it out.

MT

The odds are much more prevalent than what you make it seem to be. I have given you sources and links to help you understand the proper concept of probability in chemistry/biology and that the formation of organic molecules & compounds is much simpler (even in extreme conditions) to form than previously thought or what you make it seem to be.
http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?a ... feature=iv
Here is the entire playlist of the Series I mentioned before. Episode 8-10 deal mostly about your questions.
Episode 12 shortly talks about DNA, chromosomes, Genes, and base pairs.
Episode 15 talks/explains about the "Cambrian Explosion" mentioned earlier in the topic.

Yanoda

[Darth Crater]

True; I probably should've disputed his numbers further. MT, what are your sources, for, say, that 1 in 10^40? (and what's the time period for that, anyway? It's meaningless on its own)

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

@Mandy

Before you make claims there are no reasons i suggest you look it up.
Exodus 23:22-24 For my angel will go ahead of you and will indeed bring you to the Am´or·ites and the Hit´tites and the Per´iz·zites and the Ca´naan·ites, the Hi´vites and the Jeb´u·sites, and I shall certainly efface them. You must not bow down to their gods or be induced to serve them, and you must not make anything like their works, but you will without fail throw them down and you will without fail break down their sacred pillars.

Their gods, aka other gods or in the bibles point of view false gods, wich was one of the 10 basic laws given to the jews in their pact.
Also please not that this relates to the story of Sodom and gomorrah, wich is basicly the story of these 2 cities having people in it that were well in god's eyes inmoral, the cities were destroyed and never rebuilt, the destroyed ruins were found...the same thing happened with babylon destroyed and never rebuilt.

Do note that in the bible there are many stories like this, these things also happened to Israel when they started to pray to other gods, yet every time they were warned, there is also a story related with jonah who also profitised the destruction of a city due to their inmoral behavior, however this city's people repented and it wasn't destroyed.

@Yanoda

Sry my PC is unable to load a vid with it's current speed
However with all my investigation it just seem to me scientists can't agree on their own theories, one scientists believes in the evolution theory while the other believes that we don't know yet, so how can we know what is right and what is wrong if scientists say it diffrently? can YOU say one is right and the other is wrong?

@Crator

Ill have to look up both my books and some links i checked upon
Edit: i just googled "chance of a protein molecule"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071229040544AAFFA0x
It's just a "little" more then i said, i'm not claiming this is accurate either, chances are FAR below 1% wich is a fact till science can proove the odds diffrently

Also do note that i do not believe in evolution theory and the big bang happening on itself, like many here said if a god created the earth he most likely ussed elements at his disposal, i also find this funny:

Jeremiah 10:11-13
This is what YOU men will say to them: “The gods that did not make the very heavens and the earth are the ones who will perish from the earth and from under these heavens.” He is the Maker of the earth by his power, the One firmly establishing the productive land by his wisdom, and the One who by his understanding stretched out the heavens. At [his] voice there is a giving by him of a turmoil of waters in the heavens, and he causes vapors to ascend from the extremity of the earth. He has made even sluices for the rain, and he brings forth the wind from his storehouses.

MT

[Mandalore]

Anyone who defends genocide as "reasonable" is a [m'kay] pig. Hitler gave plenty of warnings too, that doesn't make it right. If we could find God he would quite reasonably be tried at the Hague and executed for crimes against humanity. But that's just a pipe dream. Having a nice little book and a sky fairy does not excuse the Jews from their guilt in the butchering of the different peoples of the Levant. The fact that you defend that as something that was warranted makes me question your humanity. Under no circumstances is genocide the correct answer. Samuel 15:2-3 being a great example of how barbaric this sky fairy must be if he exists. And there are a few verses in Joshua, Numbers, and I think Joshua as well where there is a nice bit of slaughtering, pillaging, and raping. FUN STUFF.

and crater, it's been years since I've looked up anti-matter. I'm pretty sure it was either that or dark er that they first created in the lab and then only after found it in the universe. I won't contest whether it's a different form of something as all I can recall is that its made of anti-particles.

[Yanoda]

@Yanoda
Sry my PC is unable to load a vid with it's current speed
However with all my investigation it just seem to me scientists can't agree on their own theories, one scientists believes in the evolution theory while the other believes that we don't know yet, so how can we know what is right and what is wrong if scientists say it diffrently? can YOU say one is right and the other is wrong?
MT

I don't know where you get that MT or seem to get mixed up on what is happening in the scientific community.
At least 90% of the Scientific Community is in support of Evolution of Life. Yes, they may disagree on the exact process of Evolution, but they all support it. http://www.people-press.org/2009/07/09/ ... er-issues/
Have you heard of peer review? This is what constantly happens within the Scientific Community. Every work/research is reviewed by other Scientists to see if the research is valid and if one disagrees with the work, they have to conduct research/experiments to disprove it. It is inherent that several scientific research will be questioned, but in the end, what describes the phenomenon best (with facts & data to back it up) will be accepted.
The scientific community does not use the term belief/believe FYI. Belief: 'an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof' Oxford Dictionary.
Belief is something what a religious person would have. The Belief that God(s) exist, there is no definite proof or a way to collect data on them. That is why Evolution of Life is considered the best explanation of how Life has developed and changed over hundreds of millions of years.
There were many Gods before the Judeo-Christian God, how are you sure that that God is the real one? Maybe it is Zeus who is the real God, or maybe its Ra, or Achaman, or Huitzilopochtli, etc... Got any proof which God is the REAL one? If anyone can offer proper data (which can be replicated and verified) that confirms the existence of God(s), then everyone would convert to that religion/God(s). If you're so convinced that a Deity/Deities created our/the Universe, then try to do research of your own and find the way to show with definite proof that God(s) exist. He who claims something (that God(s) exist(s)) has to provide the proof (data, research ect.).
Saying the Bible/Qu'ran/Tanakh says so does not validate it.

Ill have to look up both my books and some links i checked upon
Edit: i just googled "chance of a protein molecule"
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071229040544AAFFA0x
It's just a "little" more then i said, i'm not claiming this is accurate either, chances are FAR below 1% wich is a fact till science can proove the odds diffrently
MT

To even use something like that to prove your point is horrendous. The top answer-er's name is 'Creation Science' already one's alarm should go off. Not only that, but that person gives a link of a website that is full of Pseudo Science and BS (after reading a few pages). Example quoting a man and giving a false/erroneous citation of a totally different supposed 'scientist'. Using that same person (Wendell Bird) as citation to discredit 'Evolution' several times, guess what, he's not even a scientist! He's a fricking Attorney and the website uses him as a credible source against Evolution?

This is what I get from many Creationists who deny Evolution of Life.


Yanoda

[Darth Crater]

That Yahoo Answer you post cites no sources, is poorly written (it seems to mean 1 in 10^950, not 1 in 10950), and based on its including this number in the "question" can only be seen as propaganda. Show me that same number (1 in 10^950) from a reputable source, and I'll still contest that that number is absolutely insane and impossible.