Dwarf Actors...are upset

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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby Col. Hstar » Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:03 pm

Shalandai wrote:I do think the majority of the comments made in this thread are rather shameful, and make us look very shallow. Would you say such things to their faces? Most likely not, which therefore only implies cowardice. You'll only make such comments behind the safety of Internet anonymity, which, in my eyes, makes these actors the 'bigger people' here.


I have to ask if you read some of the comments that the leaders of the protest made. Comparing the use of tall actor and making them small to using a white actor and making them look black, was grossly overstating his position. Because his stance wasn't strong even in his own eyes, he brought in issues of racial inequality. No one denied him a right to work, he just didn't get the job. I think that is just as shameful and maybe even more so then a couple jokes about a silly protest.
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby Shalandai » Sun Jun 17, 2012 4:13 am

Col. Homestar wrote:I have to ask if you read some of the comments that the leaders of the protest made. Comparing the use of tall actor and making them small to using a white actor and making them look black, was grossly overstating his position. Because his stance wasn't strong even in his own eyes, he brought in issues of racial inequality. No one denied him a right to work, he just didn't get the job. I think that is just as shameful and maybe even more so then a couple jokes about a silly protest.


Valid. You are correct in assuming I have not done the background research; in fact, I did not even read the link from the first post. The entire basis for my response was drawn entirely from the information contained in the thread, which certainly contains enough bias to render my viewpoint an opinion rather than an observation.

I must say, though, what I find to be the most interesting aspect about this, in hindsight, is the nature of my post; pot calling the kettle black, yes? From perspectives beyond mine, it could easily be construed as hypocrisy. So what is the correct response, then? Choosing not to reply in the first place? That potentially treads the line towards simple ignorance a little too strongly, in my opinion. So there is no right answer? An interesting insight.

I can only marvel at the absurd beauty of this paradox.

And then wonder why this is how I choose to entertain myself when I stay home on a Saturday night. :roll:
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby Col. Hstar » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:31 pm

Shalandai wrote:I must say, though, what I find to be the most interesting aspect about this, in hindsight, is the nature of my post; pot calling the kettle black, yes? From perspectives beyond mine, it could easily be construed as hypocrisy. So what is the correct response, then? Choosing not to reply in the first place? That potentially treads the line towards simple ignorance a little too strongly, in my opinion. So there is no right answer? An interesting insight.


My head hurts :)
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby 11_Panama_ » Sun Jun 17, 2012 11:55 pm

A woman will do that to a man. ;)
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby WD-40 » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:24 am

I just saw 'Snow White and the Huntsman' today with the wife and kids. I have to admit it was very good. And I have no doubt that it was actually made better using the 'heads, voices and Talent' of the normal sized actors and making them look like dwarfs versus using midgets and real dwarfs that really aren't as talented. My opinion. I think the producers knew what they were doing. Good show. :punk:
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby 11_Panama_ » Mon Jun 18, 2012 1:39 am

WD-40 wrote:I just saw 'Snow White and the Huntsman' today with the wife and kids. I have to admit it was very good. And I have no doubt that it was actually made better using the 'heads, voices and Talent' of the normal sized actors and making them look like dwarfs versus using midgets and real dwarfs that really aren't as talented. My opinion. I think the producers knew what they were doing. Good show. :punk:

Someone is going to hate you for saying that...watch. Those poor little people.
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby Col. Hstar » Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:43 am

11_Panama_ wrote:A woman will do that to a man. ;)


At first I thought I was hitting the norco a little too hard, but nope it was the post :innocent:
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby Shalandai » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:24 am

Valid. I do that sometimes, as I am aware that I have the unfortunate tendency to type like I talk. Could be worse, though. At least you don't have to live with me. :roll:

I did go back and re-read my post to see if I could identify which area of the sentence structure seemed to be causing all of the difficulty; for reasons unknown I focused on the idiomatic expression, 'pot calling the kettle black'. It's a very unique and interesting statement to make, but in a literal sense is isolated enough from the mainstream perspective that it was not likely to be an accidental comparison. I assume, for most people at least, that we're not in the habit of imagining things from the perspective of inanimate objects. But it did make me quite curious, so I decided I had to go research its origins, because the idiom as it stands on its own feels too... coincidental.

So. Research!

As generally understood from a literal standpoint, the person accusing (the "pot") is understood to share some quality with the target of their accusation (the "kettle"). The pot is mocking the kettle for a little soot when the pot itself is thoroughly covered in the same.

An alternative interpretation with basis on historical data states that the pot is sooty (being placed on a fire), while the kettle is clean and shiny (being placed on coals only), and hence when the pot accuses the kettle of being black, it is the pot’s own sooty reflection that it sees: the pot accuses the kettle of a fault that only the pot has, rather than one that they share. Basis for this is drawn from historical information, wherein cast iron tools were often blackened with pitch deliberately in order to keep them from rusting. Blackening a stove after winter and before summer was a common practice. If both the pot and the kettle had been blackened with pitch, then they would both share the same quality. However, this is in direct contrast to the literal interpretation; given the psychological nature of this interpretation, I am not surprised to find most references sourced only after the mid 1960s.

But where does it come from? I need historical data!

Maxwell, William Henry. (1904) Maxwell's Elementary Grammar. A children's book in wide circulation in the early century contained the following poem, which is the first time 'pot' and 'kettle' were used:

"Oho!' said the pot to the kettle; "You are dirty and ugly and black! Sure no one would think you were metal, except when you're given a crack."
"Not so! Not so! kettle said to the pot; "'Tis your own dirty image you see; for I am so clean without blemish or blot that your blackness is mirrored in me!"

The first English equivalent:

Geoffrey Chaucer, Geoffrey. (circa 1380) Troilus and Criseyde. The original passage reads 'one who has a glass head should beware of stones', as a counsel to caution being judgmental. The modern derivative of this passage is idealized as 'Those that live in glass houses should not throw stones'.

But earliest known records of actual appearance? I had to email a Professor of Etymology at the University of Toronto to get a real answer (and he responded very quickly <3) with some fascinating reading material: I hyperlinked the relevant passage in this book.

"The crab spoke thus,
seizing the snake in its claws,
'One’s comrade should be straight
and not think crooked thoughts."

So, the very source of all of this, where it all began, was from a Greek drinking song sometime during the late 6th century BCE, known colloquially as the Snake and the Crab. This parable was survived through recitation, before finally being recorded as one of Aesop's Fables (#196 specifically).

How very enlightening! Of course, I should have looked at Aesop as a general starting point, considering how much of everything is drawn from his works but the roundabout path had its merits, such as the first recorded mention of pot and kettle in a children's schoolbook. I shall have to remember that.

However, I think the most interesting part of this whole adventure has been the tie-in to modern medicine and its application in psychological projection, specifically Draft H as a defense mechanism. I'm currently undertaking specialization courses in my field for Canine Psychopathology, Canine Neuropathy and Canine Behavioral Modification for so I must do more research on this. I am quite intrigued as to applications of the relevant schools of thought in relation to animal psychology...

Thank you!
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby Col. Hstar » Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:43 am

:eek: it hurts more

Careful though, posts this long are likly to get an even longer response. Especially if we were to start talking about the origins of the pot and kettle, and whether or not they truly are black or just lacking color. :punk:
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Re: Dwarf Actors...are upset

Postby 11_Panama_ » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:31 pm

Col. Homestar wrote::eek: it hurts more

Careful though, posts this long are likly to get an even longer response. Especially if we were to start talking about the origins of the pot and kettle, and whether or not they truly are black or just lacking color. :punk:

It's a grey area...was the pot and kettle designed? Or did it evolve from amino acids and protein strands? We just may never know.
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