MT's Gaming Compendium™

[haasd0gg]

Pac man
Tecmobowl
NHL 92
Swbf
COD

Really? I bet you play with Barbie Dolls too!

Says the mo who's playing dungeon hunter

[crazyperson]

"Crybabies: now there are players that will whine about how they got killed, there is an "excuse" list somewhere, i just have to make it
Generally excuses range from "OMG 2v1 3v1 4v1 the sever vs me" "OMG Ganging up on me"(yea teamwork is totally for inexperienced "Noobs")"

Let me do an impression here.

"BAWWWWW IM LAGGIN"

[theavengers85]

I predict that this thread will have 30 pages.

Have you seen the evolution debate thread? Its topping 75 pages.

This will easily go over 150 :P.

[Shalandai]

There are some grossly misleading flaws in your segment on MMORPGs, for which I feel obligated to correct.

Roles:

Incorrect on all three accounts. You state that almost all MMOs have fixed primary roles, that secondary roles will not be as effective as a primary role class, and that you will only ever be asked to play your primary. All three are grossly inaccurate.

Example 1: All of these do not feature fixed roles, and I can list many more - there are nearly a hundred.

Darkfall
Star Wars Galaxies (Pre-NGE)
Eve Online
Drakensang Online
Black Prophecy
Fallen Earth
The Secret World
etc.

Example 2: What defines a secondary role? Not a single MMO holds to this ideology. Even if we look at one of the giants:

World of Warcraft - Priest class. It's a priest, it doesn't wear Armor, so it must be a Healer. Is that it's primary role? Then why is it, for a time, that Shadow Priests had the highest DPS on a raid?
World of Warcraft - Paladin. What is it's Primary, I must ask? It can DPS like a mack truck. It's a viable end-game healer. It can main-tank raids. It can fill all three roles.
World of Warcraft - Shaman. What is it's Primary role? It has stable PvE and PvP dps roles, and it's one of the strongest single-target burst healers with strong mana efficiency in the game.

This is just from the big king of MMOs. I can find examples of where you are incorrect in virtually every MMORPG that I have ever played.

Example 3: See above. If you are playing a Paladin specced as a Healer, do you really think people are going to ask you to go respec and regear over to DPS? Be realistic. This was a dumb statement to make. It's about as accurate as saying that if you play an Engineer in SWBF2 and don't spend all your time welding and repairing, you are useless compared to a "real DPS" like a Sniper. Because we all know that Engineers can't deal damage. Their primary role is Support, yes?

Types of roles/The holy trinity:

Smaller sticking points.

- In your segment on DPS, you listed Melee, Ranged, and Magic damage dealers. In every MMO I have ever played, mages and archers are both considered Ranged - there is no "magic" damage dealer as you allege.

- You allege a fourth role removed from games. This is incorrect. It was simply combined with another - Tank / Healer / DPS / Buffing became Tank / Support / DPS. They still exist, but have been streamlined because no one wanted to play a pure buffbot. The umbrella of the Support subsect is primarily Healers and Buffers. In mainstream, as they are offensive actions, most Debuff-based classes are considered a specialized subset of DPS roles.

- You correctly identify LotRO's Captain as a support role, but fail to include the Minstrel and the Runekeeper, which are also support classes. Supporting roles include Healer-based classes.

Combat:

- You state that combat is slower, and less realistic, both of which are very blanketing and therefore incorrect statements. If you are talking about World of Warcraft, you are correct. If you are talking about Darkfall, you just made yourself look like a n00b.

- You state active use abilities require power or mana. If you are talking about World of Warcraft, well, you've got about half of them right. What about the Rage meter? What about Death Runes? And what about all the rest of the MMOs in the world? Darkfall, Age of Conan, Eve Online, Global Agenda, etc, do not use any fragment of this system. No mana bars, no power bars, etc. Grossly misleading statement.

- The "devastating" critical as you describe is a mechanic present only in LotRO. No other MMOs uses devastating criticals, though critical hits are present in many MMORPGs. Specifically, it is different from a critical hit - a critical hit is 'generally' a basic x0.5 multiplayer on your present damage dealt. Devastating Criticals in LotRO do not contain this multiplier, but rather, bypass the target's armor and resistance mitigations, so while it does often hit for quite a bit more damage, that is because the target just lost the 40% damage reduction from all of his armor and his shield combined when you score a Devastating Critical.

- BPE is a LotRO-specific term; colloquially these are referred to in standard terms as Avoidance.

Raids:

- Raids are not 12 players. In fact, 12 is not a very common number at all. The general range is from 8 players to 40 players. (8, 10, 16, 20, 25, and 40 are standard raid sizes.)

- Roleplaying is not required to get anywhere in raids. In fact, roleplaying is usually discouraged in raids. I believe you are confusing roleplaying with knowledge of how to play your class.

THIS IS ROLEPLAYING: not the same thing.



- Raid leaders who go nuts don't have a raid for very long. Do you really think the oh-so-overplayed Onyxia leader really finds groups?

- While you correctly describe AoE affects, you are grossly incorrect in stating that you should not stand behind enemies. First and foremost, for melee DPS classes - example, rogues - many abilities like "Backstab" are only useable when behind a target. Secondly (and more specific to themepark MMOs, like World of Warcraft) attacking a target from the front gives the boss a chance to Parry or Block - of which they cannot do from behind. Therefore, standing behind a target is the ideal position in which to attack, unless your target has a backward facing attack, which most don't. However, the video in which you are obviously alleging features a dragon with a tail swipe, so I can only assume that the bulk of your actual raiding experience is drawn from watching this video. Which, unfortunately, means that it is generally incorrect on almost all counts.

PvP:

- Many MMORPGs are PvP first, PvE second (see Darkfall, Warhammer, Black Prophecy). PvP does not trash the role, and PvP is not unbalanced. Making statements like that means that you are simply repeating the QQ whining of the very gamers you allege in your first section. That whole first paragraph is a bigger disaster than the scenario you described. I would actually recommend just deleting that whole first paragraph on the basis of how wrong it is. That's like saying people drive a car, and as soon as a new model car comes out, it changes the dynamics of the road, and everyone starts crashing their cars. Did you actually read what you were typing? This is so wrong it's actually very surprising. You actually believe this kind of forum QQ? Think about it for a second.


Others:

- Combat delusion - in most MMOs, this is usually referred to as being a complete moron, being a FAIL, being a baddie, being a DERP, being a n00b, or being a [m'kay]. I have never heard of 'combat delusion' and I know I have played more MMORPGs than you, and quite possibly since before you were even born, judging from where I believe your age range is.

- Questing - your statement is applicable in Themepark MMOs, but not in Sandbox MMOs.

- Your statement about Harvesting materials is grossly incorrect. In World of Warcraft, you are right. But you are not even correct in LotRO. And using a different MMORPG example, in Exiled Realm of Arborea, there are bonuses from having multiple players harvest materials from a resource node at once, to encourage people to do it as a group rather than harvesting alone.

- Tagging enemies - correct in some Themepark MMOs. In many, there is no Tagging system - it is free loot for kills (Eve Online, Darkfall, Fallen Earth). In others, tags can be broken or stolen by another group or player (Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Rift Online, Warhammer 40k).

In MMORPG's you will generally see game designers making epic bad choices, for instance something called nerfs and revamps:

.... wow.... just wow... I'm sorry, but this pretty much invalidates so much of your entire post that I am disinclined to continue reading. I really don't want to make this seem like a personal attack, but you do just make yourself sound stupid and ignorant by posting this, and I know that you are not stupid and ignorant. I would recommend removing this passage if you actually want this to be seen as a serious guide and not a DERP-fest. I'm really going to ignore this entire subsection. Because you know the most apt comparison? Posting, in all seriousness, that women can do nothing but make babies and cook, and that's the reason you should get a wife. Your whole section here is so completely wrong that it's actually a little bit offending. Have you ever played an MMO?

I really don't want to continue responding since this passage kind of put me off continuing to read. But there is one thing I want to point out:

People say the whole concept of MMORPG's is going to change on the 28th august of this year.
Arenanet developers have noticed the things players want and the MMORPG issues, and of course other game developers doing the same thing every time, they looked at their game and noticed all of the above issues, and decided, to make a new game altogether GW2

Ugh. Really?

First off.

The whole concept of MMOs are not going to change.

Dynamic combat? Done a long time ago, by many others. Exiled Realm of Arborea. Vindictus. Age of Conan. Hellgate. Dungeons and Dragons Online. Come on, buddy.

Cross profession? Star Wars Galaxies? Final Fantasy XI? Final Fantasy XIV? Fallen Earth? Darkfall? Nothing new here.

Environmental? Vindictus? Darkfall? Fallen Earth? Certainly less common, and a newer feature, but they are not the first.

Holy Trinity removed? Oh dear gods, more than 70% of the MMORPGs in existance do not use the Holy Trinity. Come on, buddy!

Raids and nodes - I'm not even going to bother pointing this one out.

Dynamic events? Clearly you never played Rift Online. That very feature you describe has already been done before. Even World of Warcraft did it first!

Grinding? Still exists. Just a lower level cap, to reduce the volume of grinding required. I suggest you rewatch that developer interview.

Shared instance rewards? Ever played Aion? Or Dungeons and Dragons? Or Vindictus? Didn't think so.

Money

Ok, admittedly, Guild Wars ONE was the first MMO to remove the monthly fee. But now F2P MMOs are a dime-a-dozen. Guild Wars 2 is nothing special here.

The only thing Guild Wars has going for it, at the moment, is a strong reputation (the first one was very good) and a fabulous marketing campaign. It will be a very good MMORPG, but it will not 'revolutionize' MMOs.

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You really need to spend a lot more time doing research on this, as it is grossly evident that you have minimal experience with MMOs and within the market industry, as well as the fact that you base a significant volume of your statements on the posts of the crybabies you write about.

Still, good try, though. It wasn't all bad.

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

I see you entirely misunderstood my points, in a horrible way, since i'm on a laptop i won't be able to do direct quotes
Roles: what your class defines is what your class can do, i don't know how much you raid, or how deeply you research classes.
However, there is a diffrence between something viable, and something which requires the best of the best at it's role.
I define a secondary role as something that the class can do, but not as well as another role the class has.

You mencioned the priest class as having no armor so it must be a healer, horribly wrong deduction, like i mencioned before in damage dealers there are mage classes that obviously don't use heavy armor, nor medium, heck SWTOR has a light armored class that has as main role tanking.

You see i shouldn't have ussed WoW as any example, ever since vanilla WoW the hard difficulty has dissapeared(and many hardcore raiders left the game) , viable healer again stated from a paladin, "viable" in real raids doesn't work in real raids.
if you take the RK from LOTRO since you mencioned it, it actually has 2 predefined roles, Healer and DPS, yet trew testing with some plugins it lacks about 300DPS compared to the other DPS classes, if you really are in a DPS rush you ain't going to want an RK, and for so long the RK wasn't wanted as a healer because before they couldn't heal as well as the other mainhealing class

To answer your third example [m'kay] yea, in hardcore raids, or even in smaller instances many times have i and other friends been asked to respec, and regear to fit the bill, even log into other classes, it's a normal concept, in lotro as example it's that normal you can buy a utility from the store that allows you to respec anywhere for an hour.

Types of roles/the holy trinity
Read again i said both are generally(in some games a few attacks are done from melee or very short range)
In most games there is a caster DPSer, tough this doesn't change the distance in many games even in WoW a caster does a diffrent damage type.

It also involves into how much damage you can partially avoid with armor, or how you can completely avoid it, as an example of WoW, physical damage can be blocked and parried, but as example fire can't, and in many games just ranged damage has a longer range, though it depepends on the individual skills

You seem to be mistaking a healing role for a support role, and it seems you fail to see what a purly suportive role does.
As many players in the current MMO systems you see healing as support, the diffrence is that support makes things smoother, healing is vital, stop healing and in the current system everybody dies, stop support and you will still do it all, but not as smooth

Like i explained before support can be a great range of things, from enhancing allies to hindering enemies, and in GW2 devs eyes healing becomes a support, not vital, and has a minor role, you could live without healing others, there is no class made for healing

Combat:

I was talking about WoW, since i haven't played darkfall, so do raidbosses die in 3 hits? you can't really call taking down a boss in 10M fast-paced, nor near as realistic as FPS games, it's entirely diffrent

Yes and nor will GW2 use such a system, i am talking about the most commonly played MMO's same deal with FPS, hence why i haven't written about RTS yet, way less played currently

Actually, in the LI system of LOTRO you can increase the magnitude of devestating hits, also it doesn't bypass mitigations, the tests done in DPS of LOTRO players are done against training dummies, Lore-Masters have a skill that can check the mits of your oponents even dummies, one of their skills destroys the mits, against dummies this attack gives them no mits putting them at feeble, yet my devestating blows still do more damage then my criticals, so your argument is invalid.
I have a DPS class in LOTRO of one of my skills a normal hit at the lvl cap does 650 damage, critical is 1400 and devestating is 2300(all more or less) the numbers i gave about X2 and X3 were examples, not exact numbers, but by 0.5 is BS since there are Legacies allowing to increase the critical multiplier, as an example, champions have one increasing the Multiplier by +50%

Raids:

My bad on the raid size i should have said 12+ i haden't seen raids smaller, i mean sure as an example in LOTRO you have "instances" that are done with 3 players....however iv'e never seen anyone call those raids

I did fail on saying "Role-playing" what i meant is people should play a certain role, which should be what their classes mainrole is, i mean every class sould have a diffrent spec for grouping or for soloing, otherwise healers couldn't solo content

I'm not saying all raidleaders go crazy, i said some do, and in fact yes, those really crazy raid-leaders do actually make sucsesful groups if they really know what they are doing.
As an example in LOTRO-PVP there are 2 sides, and on both the most known raidleaders yell @ people 90% of the time, yet their the most expirienced
pvpers around, and their groups are alwayes sucsesfull so people ask them to make groups.
Though the above i guess depends on personal expirience, not on logic since besides for the sucsesfull part it has none.

Your comments regarding standing behind enemies are pointless since i don't remember saying you should't stand behind enemies, there are various reasons why you should, main one is AOE's and yes some classes do aditional bonus damage from behind, in LOTRO enemies actually can't block or parry when attacked from behind

PvP:

Sure, yet i don't recall an MMORPG that started with balanced PVP, one side has more players and there goes your balance, and rarely have i seen balance in classes, especially since PVP is bogged down by PVE or videversa, iv'e seen it time and again.
And sure, a tank is going to get aggro from other players in PVP indeed, makes sence.


Others:

It seems my microsoft word autocorrected a word, which got me that lovely response, Don't judge if you don't want to be judged.

I don't know what your saying but in LOTRO a node dissapears after the first player mines it, even seconds after the node disapears.

Okay so those MMO's trade the first who attacked for killing blows or allow you to steal tags, even a worse concept, you do all the work someone else gets the credit.

Of course you take offense, you play MMO's and understand the concept diffrently.
Nerfs involve decreasing either skills or classes entirely generally deemed overpowered
Revamps involve in changing skills or classes, generally because they are underpowered compared to other classes with the same role.
Instances can also be revamped tough i've not seen it been called nerfed when it got easyer

Now, i can assure you that many skill or class revamps are due to feedback of players, and MANY times i've seen players call something of ANOTHER class which they don't play overpowered, not only that but many forum threads with rediculous suggestions being added, many of which involve changing classes.
I see game designers totally changing classes when they were perfect as they were, but due to people whining things get changed.

I've seen so much flame wars between players that play diffrent classes with the same roles.
Of course and this is the point where you took it insulting, generally Nerfs and revamps are deemed good because they balance things and are necesary, in some cases.
What i meant is that game designers make a wrong choice, everybodys pissed, let's change it after everyone is used to it.
I wonder shal, has anyone nerfed or entirely revamped a class you loved? they have with me in the past, and it isn't funny that after so much time invested in a class you wake up one day and you can't play your class anymore, and people that know you ask you to login another class because they refuse to take dead weight with them, and logically thinking they were right


Right, you called out individual games that individually had one of these, GW2 has them all.
No current MMORPG has this besides GW2
The big MMO giant of today has none of these.
Get my point?

Money

F2P MMO's i haven't written about those in my compendium yet.
F2P MMO's mislead you thinking it's free, it never is, unless you want to grind all your life, or you don't want all the content

I'm glad i'm not so judging as you are, by now it would have costed me much

[Shalandai]

Roles: what your class defines is what your class can do, i don't know how much you raid, or how deeply you research classes.
However, there is a diffrence between something viable, and something which requires the best of the best at it's role.
I define a secondary role as something that the class can do, but not as well as another role the class has.

And you completely misunderstood one of my most prominent points.

To answer your question, I raid a lot. Currently I'm only raiding twice a week, but that's because content in both games is on farm and we are waiting for new content to be released. I have raided in every single MMO that I have played, server-firsts in more than half. When I was actively playing Rift Online, I was the Main Healer AND Heal Leader in the World First guild Addiction, for Greenscale's Blight, Alsbeth the Discordant, of River of Souls, the Gilded Prophecy, the Drowned Halls and the world first clearing of Hammerknell Fortress. I would link you to the gaming interview that I specifically was asked to do, but it has my real name in it.

Secondly, I spend more time researching the classes, theorycrafting, stat-weights and number-crunching than I do playing the game. I am a perfectionist. I maximize every single aspect of my characters to the absolute maximum. Anything less is unacceptable.

There is a reason I was made Heal Leader in Addiction - I trained other healers to the level that we needed them to be, and if they failed, I kicked them from the guild and found someone else who wouldn't. Currently, I serve in the same role as a Main Healer and Heal Leader for my guild in The Old Republic, though it's only a server-first guild.

Suffice to say, I know what I am talking about when it comes to Raiding.

"viable" in real raids doesn't work in real raids.

Just as a minor sticking point, before I quit WoW, I was in a server-first guild in which one of our single best healers was a Paladin. We were clearing new content the day it came out as a server-first raid guild. My personal experience is in significant disagreement with your opinion.

To answer your third example [m'kay] yea, in hardcore raids, or even in smaller instances many times have i and other friends been asked to respec, and regear to fit the bill, even log into other classes, it's a normal concept, in lotro as example it's that normal you can buy a utility from the store that allows you to respec anywhere for an hour.

In Hardcore raids, yes, this happens, but not because your spec is useless. They take you because you as a player have more skill than someone else who is on a backup team and because they know you can fill an open hole. If you are missing a tank for your raid, and you know that your Healer Paladin is a legit player and has the tank gear, it's a better option to have him respec than to bring in an unexperienced or undergeared scrub tank to fill the role - assuming you have a Healer to replace you. Relevance to specific class role changes only resultant from very specific abilities - dispel vs cleanse, AoE vs Melee, etc.

Types of roles/the holy trinity

People who actually get paid to write the kind of guides you posted - the majority of the internet, if you care to google - disprove your theories.

I was talking about WoW, since i haven't played darkfall, so do raidbosses die in 3 hits? you can't really call taking down a boss in 10M fast-paced, nor near as realistic as FPS games, it's entirely diffrent

Darkfall doesn't have raid bosses. It's a PvP exclusive MMO.

My bad on the raid size i should have said 12+ i haden't seen raids smaller, i mean sure as an example in LOTRO you have "instances" that are done with 3 players....however iv'e never seen anyone call those raids

WoW has had 10 man raids for years, and TOR has 8 man raids. And no, I was not counting instances as raids.

Your comments regarding standing behind enemies are pointless since i don't remember saying you should't stand behind enemies, there are various reasons why you should, main one is AOE's and yes some classes do aditional bonus damage from behind, in LOTRO enemies actually can't block or parry when attacked from behind

Now that you have edited your post, we are in agreement. However, if you are going to edit your post to remove your errors, and then tell me I am wrong and that you never posted it in the first place, I feel obligated to inform you of something. I was currently offline when I wrote much of my original response - I copy pasted and saved your original document into a wordfile so that I could compare back to it without being online, so I know when you have edited and changed your original post.

Sure, yet i don't recall an MMORPG that started with balanced PVP, one side has more players and there goes your balance,

From that statement alone, it is obvious that you do not have extensive or varied experience in multiple MMOs.

It seems my microsoft word autocorrected a word, which got me that lovely response, Don't judge if you don't want to be judged.

Which word?

even a worse concept, you do all the work someone else gets the credit

See, I don't play on fuzzy-cuddly carebear servers. I play on PvP servers or PvP only games. My mentality? If you can't defend your tag, you lose it. If someone tries to steal my tag? I kill them first, and then I come back to finish my tag - and if I die in the process, then obviously I wasn't deserving of it.

Same goes if I find others. If I want a mob for my quest and someone else is working it, I will kill that player and / or steal that tag. If I succeed, then they weren't deserving of it. And since I only play on PvP servers or games, if they complain about it, I tell them to either grow a pair or go play carebear WoW, and then I take screenshots of the QQ to add to my delicious collection of little kiddie tears.

Every now and then I get those special players that are so butt-hurt that I add them to my friends list, so that I know when they are online (and most friends lists in games show location). So, every now and then, I hunt them down, corner them, and butcher them mercilessly just so that I can feed off the carebear tears. Those days when I can stalk, brutalize and utterly wreck a player to the point that they log off the game in tears are the best kind of days. Even the thought of doing so makes me giddy sometimes.

If you don't have the skill to defend yourself against me, OR, if you don't have the social aptitude to have friends to come rescue / protect you, then that's your problem, not mine.

Now, i can assure you that many skill or class revamps are due to feedback of players, and MANY times i've seen players call something of ANOTHER class which they don't play overpowered, not only that but many forum threads with rediculous suggestions being added, many of which involve changing classes.
I see game designers totally changing classes when they were perfect as they were, but due to people whining things get changed.

Here is where you misinterpret everything that you read on internet forums as "fact". You should edit your original post to say that the whiny crybabies determine the direction of the game and always get what they want, then.

it isn't funny that after so much time invested in a class you wake up one day and you can't play your class anymore, and people that know you ask you to login another class because they refuse to take dead weight with them

LOL! Screenshotted for my collection.

Right, you called out individual games that individually had one of these, GW2 has them all.
No current MMORPG has this besides GW2
The big MMO giant of today has none of these.
Get my point?

I do. Did you get mine?

I'm actually curious, because it does seem like you did not understand the point I was making, several times.

[[m'kay]]

This argument is literally concentrated aspergers and i'm loving every minute of it.

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

Once again i can't quote due to being on this crappy piece o junk laptop

The viable part must depend either from game to game, or from player to player.
From my expirience in many ocasions viable wasn't enough, in many ocasions players that we're beyond epic could't fit the bill with "viable", unless our perception of viable is diffrent.

About the respecing i do agree but i've seen it happen time and again in any instances as well.
Do note that over time i've quit doing pug runs, time and again i see people failing, even worse when they start blaiming others for their failure.
If it we're my pug group they whould be kicked, but overtime both gear-wise and expirience-wise pugs lack what i seek, so unless it's to really help out someone i own a favour i don't pug anymore.

Nice link, though many players commenting seem to agree with my theories
I agree it's an all or nothing idea, but see in that link the person making that thread refered to people looking for players speced fully for tanking, DPS or healing.
2/3 of those roles don't exist in GW2.
About his Community forging issues, they are fairly incorrect, i've seen many tension between players blaiming others because they failed at Theying their class right.
It was mencioned that the holy trinity makes you feel part of something special, well yes, as a tank and healer it, does, but as DPS it rarely does.
And that being that the mayority of players plays a DPS role, so that would mean that the mayority of the playerbase isn't part of this

The other issue i see is that there will be issues with people taking gear for their off-spec.
First of all in GW2 everybody gets rewarded equally for doing instances or raids, raids are 5-manned as well
Secondly everyone can play every role, there wouldn't be much of an off spec if you focus on 1 toon

So there is no PVE content in darkfall, it does change entirely the concept of it if were talking PVE, i agree i should be clearer next time.

You are very wrong in even hinting i edited things so it would appear as i never said them
Whenever you edit a post after someone posted something after it then it will say under it that you edited it X amount of times and the last time you did, even with forum mod powers you can't avoid it, it's automatic, the only thing you can do is give a reason for editing.
Go back to the first post i made, it hasn't been edited, i did mencion i would edit it if i had forgotten things, however my plan was to give this text a diffrent color with an update as it were a patch so that people wouldn't have to reread all of my compendium

So as conclusion i wrote it correctly in the first place, either you misunderstood something, or you misread something, don't acuse me of doing something i didn't do

Ah well you saying you play on PVP servers only does explain a lot.
Didn't the link you provided say something about comunity building?
Anyhow i won't judge this, i did my share of against players
But you see i prefer to keep PVE and PVP seperate, some days i feel like making people rage, other days i feel like doing some PVE and being a lille more relaxed.

In PVP ill deal with crybabies, and ill respond to the flamewars which creates even more funny entertaining flamewars, but when i PVE i just don't feel like it.
It's like playing an MMORPG game when you feel like playing a FPS game, at least that's the only thing i can come up with right now

No see i don't think everything on forums are facts before i believe anything to be a fact i research the her, the class or anything related to the argument.
I just see that on many ocassions idiotic people get there way like that i see whining on the forums and a few patches later they get what they asked for.....

Good to know that that can somehow help your collection

also nice to know were entertaining narg now

MT

[Shalandai]

So close, and yet, so far. We are making progress, however.

Do note that over time i've quit doing pug runs, time and again i see people failing, even worse when they start blaiming others for their failure.

Your latter note is a particular grievance of mine. Players who fail to take accountability for their mistakes, or their conduct, during a raid are automatically removed. I will not tolerate the presence of individuals with no sense of self-responsibility.

PUGs certainly have their 'value', and their place in MMOs - like a good ol' plastic patty from McDonalds' - but your reputation - conduct, dedication and success - is the single most important facet of their role in MMORPGs. Groups that fail, do not fail because of an individual. They fail because of the group. There is a double-edged sword in playing online that you must remain cognizant of; if the team is a failure, then you, as a member of the team, are also a failure. If the chain breaks because of a single link, the chain is still broken.

The average gamer laments that he must use chains instead of ropes, or prides himself on not having to use chains. The successful gamer uses chains, and replaces any and every link at the first sign of weakness.

It was mencioned that the holy trinity makes you feel part of something special, well yes, as a tank and healer it, does, but as DPS it rarely does. And that being that the mayority of players plays a DPS role, so that would mean that the mayority of the playerbase isn't part of this

The majority of military forces are not special forces or secret agents. They are cannon fodder grunts whose most valuable asset is in believing everything that they are told.

As I said, if the chain breaks because of a single link, the chain is still broken. This is a concept that is generally lost on the youth of today. The common ideologies of the Y and Z generation are focused on the value of the self only. Children are raised to believe that they are special, that they are the precious little unique snowflakes, and that their lives have meaning and value. They are raised to believe that the world revolves around them, and are entitled to their dreams by virtue of having had them in the first place.

Now consider who your target markets are, and your niche.

So as conclusion i wrote it correctly in the first place, either you misunderstood something, or you misread something, don't acuse me of doing something i didn't do

This has me very curious. I am very strongly considering going back to re-read and double-check myself. I just might have to. In the meantime, I will offer congratulations.

Didn't the link you provided say something about comunity building?

People certainly aren't "friends" with me because I am oh-so-nice and cuddly. And I am pretty sure they don't audition for my raid seats because they enjoy spending time with me and want to get to know me better.

Good to know that that can somehow help your collection

You still didn't answer either of my questions.

This argument is literally concentrated aspergers

... Sigh.

Well, that didn't take long.

[(SWGO)Minas_Thirith]

Indeed, issues i have is that generally i'm not in charge or managing the groups, in guilds i rarely see this, i rather hear someone saying "My bad" then blaiming someone else, pug groups however are diffrent.
I never lead a pug group because i don't randomly ask for pugs, generally it would be people that are and deserve to be on my friends list....

I'm not saying pugs don't have their value, i keep seeing players that start playing an MMORPG get in a "social" guild that does neither PVE nor PVP, and then when they want to do either of those they feel they have to be loyal to their first guild that never did anything for them
In many ocasions of pugging i've encountered some epic players or players with great potencial, if i never pugged i would never found them.

I do have to disagree with the "if a group fails you failed" comment.
Just a random example which does involve the trinity, if the tank fails to get and keep agrro and i'm a healer how does this involve me?
Unless i got aggro i couldn't have affected the mather, if i grab it as a DPSer i could have, in that i do agree.
Many times i've seen 1 player fail to do his job killing us all, over and over again.
This reminds me of a hardcore raid involving 2 tanks switching aggro, this raid was done many times before, but in this one we had a new tank, the switch failed Every single time, causing the group to wipe about 13 times
The new tank saw he was the problem and left, when we brought in another more expirienced one it took 2 times....

I'm not saying this is alwayes the case, but many times i've seen it.

That's my opinion as well, for which i love the 5-man raids in GW2 weaker links are much easier to detect and remove.

The diffence is that these are games and not real life.
I agree with the whole IRL comment, but it's quite irrelevant in gaming, you could as well have said, then go play a healer or tank instead of a DPSer

Lol to the nice-and-cuddlie comment

What questions didn't i answer? no seriously if i overlooked something do tell me so i can give an answer.