The independent states of America

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

Umm, the Arab nations have always been chaotic, and have never really contributed much in comparison to Europeans and other cultures. Even the Arabic number system—isn't actually Arabic, it's Indian. Most of their legacy and relationship with the outside world has been one of war and violence, largely brought on by the violence advocated in the Koran (yes, it does—regardless of what is PC).

I mean, they don't exactly have too many Nobel Prizes...they used to have more contributions, but even those were often made by minorities living within the borders of Arab nations.

Am I reading this correctly? I'd like to think you just haven't read much on the subject and are making that statement out of ignorance, because, in reality, the Arab nations have contributed innumerably to the outside world. Advances in science, medicine, technology, and cultural achievements have made the Middle East a diverse area intertwined wit quite a bit of history. I encourage you to objectively read Middle Eastern History.

The astrolabe, medicines many European countries had not even devised, and, if you look further back, several Babylonian contributions (including the Pythagorean Theorem before the Greek Pythagoras even devised it), a timetable, accurate star charts, amazing architecture, and so much more. The Moghuls conquered far and wide, cruel but powerful, creating stability out of chaos. The Ottoman Empire made Medieval Europe look, in comparison, what the Middle East looks in the eyes of the Western World today. North African conquerors brought prosperity to Spain, brought hygiene, health, technology, and progression. Europeans' major shift to become the epicentre of global power came after their conquest of the Americas (which they could not have accomplished without Arab technology). After that, the Middle East slowly declined, and (not religion) but greed and power-craving individuals used corrupted forms of religion to stave off progression from the masses. Even today, however, Turkey and other Muslim-majority countries are amongst the wealthiest in the world.

Corrupt leaders and suppression of women because of those corrupt leaders, not to mention US and British greed getting in the way of progress has inhibited them from modernizing.

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

Answer this Crater, would you want to live in a pure Christian world, or a pure Arab world? Don't dodge the question. Those are your only two choices. So which one?

Sorry for the double post, but this needed to be responded to. I think, with one religion being the dominant belief, the current state of each faith would not endure. With nearly everyone conforming to that ideology, in either "world," the religious leaders would gain far too much power. Policies bringing us back to the stone age would be instituted, and if this were the case, we may never have progressed to where we were. No er how much you hate Islam or Christianity (or love them, mind you), neither would endure in its current state if applied to the entire world.

Think of the consequences. Opposition would be scarce, because of uniformity, and so leaders could do as they please, making things up in the name of religion or God and carrying out their own will. It would be chaos.

[WD-40]

Answer this Crater, would you want to live in a pure Christian world, or a pure Arab world? Don't dodge the question. Those are your only two choices. So which one?

Sorry for the double post, but this needed to be responded to. I think, with one religion being the dominant belief, the current state of each faith would not endure. With nearly everyone conforming to that ideology, in either "world," the religious leaders would gain far too much power. Policies bringing us back to the stone age would be instituted, and if this were the case, we may never have progressed to where we were. No er how much you hate Islam or Christianity (or love them, mind you), neither would endure in its current state if applied to the entire world.

Think of the consequences. Opposition would be scarce, because of uniformity, and so leaders could do as they please, making things up in the name of religion or God and carrying out their own will. It would be chaos.

Sigh....The question did not require this much thought or philosophical B.S.. Nor was it what I was asking. I know a single religion may be a problem....but my question was, If you had to CHOOSE between the two, which would you choose for the one-and-ONLY religion??

Edit: I'm going to edit my post in light of what 3.14 said and Otto's response. Regarding my question, I will conceed, that Christianity was persecuted by the Romans a looooong time ago, and Islam was persecuted by the Christians during the Crusades a loooooooong time ago too, and now today, Islam has their radicals (and plenty of them everywhere) who want to kill Christians, Jews, and anyone else who isn't Muslim for any excuse they can think of...sometimes needing no excuse at all. Hell, they're killing each other too! They'll even drag your dead Muslim carcass thru the streets behind a motorcycle in Gaza just to prove it. I cannot for the life of me, recall Jews or Christians doing [poo] like that in recent times....even no burning of flags or effigys...protesting videos...hunting down school children who speak out against the religion.... Keep in mind, we are still in a multi religious world...not one single religion! What would Islam vs Christianity be like if one had all the power? That being said, today, which ONE Religion would you choose??

[CommanderOtto]

Actually under Islamic rule in Spain, it was the Muslims that revived the towns, were tolerant of other religions, and caused art and literature to flourish in Spain. Around the 8th century the Arabs were far more advanced than the Europeans. When Christians retook Spain they instituted stricter policies on religion.

Not completely true; by I do concede that during the Dark Ages the Arab world was light years ahead of the Christian world. The only thing is—Christianity and Judaism are capable of adapting to a different time, whereas Islam is not.

3.14...Generalities like "Christianity and Judaism are capable of adapting to a different time, whereas Islam is not" don't add anything to this convesation. If i'm correct, the Catholic church during the Renaissance murdered thousands of people during the Inquisition. They went so far as to persecute Bible scholars who wanted to translate the Bible (let me repeat, the catholic church burnt bible translators because they didn't want the common people to read the Bible in the vernacular). That sounds just as barbaric as what some people do for religion these days. Bottom line, be neutral*

*this doesn't represent my political or religious views. I am just pointing out generalities are stupid. (no offense 3.14). And wait.. isn't this conversation about the independent states of america? What does islam have to do with this????

[FaiL.?]

?

[Darth Crater]

Answer this Crater, would you want to live in a pure Christian world, or a pure Arab world? Don't dodge the question. Those are your only two choices. So which one?

"Arab" is not a religion. Would you like to rephrase the question or for me to answer it as is? In addition, assuming you meant "Muslim", would the world be dominated by a particular sect of each religion, and if so which?

[WD-40]

Answer this Crater, would you want to live in a pure Christian world, or a pure Arab world? Don't dodge the question. Those are your only two choices. So which one?

"Arab" is not a religion. Would you like to rephrase the question or for me to answer it as is? In addition, assuming you meant "Muslim", would the world be dominated by a particular sect of each religion, and if so which?

My bad, you are correct. Pure 'Arabs' are composed of a small element of Muslims. Now I wish to emphasize that Muslims for the most part are peaceful. But Crater, I think you are nit-picking my question when you knew full well what I meant.

So...once again...Christianity vs Islam. That's ISSSSSLAAAMMMMM...not Arabs. Now that this is clear...Who would you wanna live with? All Christians lumped in one group, or all Islamic (Muslims) lumped in the alternate reality. That's it. Think I'm gonna partake in some adult beverages tonight. It's been a long day here on the Forums...and work.

Speaking of which, Muslims frown on 'Happy Juice' and will be-head you for drinking it (Unless you are Saudi Royalty, which I've seen slammining a lot of hard-stuff back in the 1980's during one of my Navy Tours overseas ). So that religion disqualifies my participation. But the cool Muslims were the 'drunk' ones. Good ol dayzzz.

[kjeopardy]

Umm, the Arab nations have always been chaotic, and have never really contributed much in comparison to Europeans and other cultures. Even the Arabic number system—isn't actually Arabic, it's Indian. Most of their legacy and relationship with the outside world has been one of war and violence, largely brought on by the violence advocated in the Koran (yes, it does—regardless of what is PC).

I mean, they don't exactly have too many Nobel Prizes...they used to have more contributions, but even those were often made by minorities living within the borders of Arab nations.

Am I reading this correctly? I'd like to think you just haven't read much on the subject and are making that statement out of ignorance, because, in reality, the Arab nations have contributed innumerably to the outside world. Advances in science, medicine, technology, and cultural achievements have made the Middle East a diverse area intertwined wit quite a bit of history. I encourage you to objectively read Middle Eastern History.

The astrolabe, medicines many European countries had not even devised, and, if you look further back, several Babylonian contributions (including the Pythagorean Theorem before the Greek Pythagoras even devised it), a timetable, accurate star charts, amazing architecture, and so much more. The Moghuls conquered far and wide, cruel but powerful, creating stability out of chaos. The Ottoman Empire made Medieval Europe look, in comparison, what the Middle East looks in the eyes of the Western World today. North African conquerors brought prosperity to Spain, brought hygiene, health, technology, and progression. Europeans' major shift to become the epicentre of global power came after their conquest of the Americas (which they could not have accomplished without Arab technology). After that, the Middle East slowly declined, and (not religion) but greed and power-craving individuals used corrupted forms of religion to stave off progression from the masses. Even today, however, Turkey and other Muslim-majority countries are amongst the wealthiest in the world.

Corrupt leaders and suppression of women because of those corrupt leaders, not to mention US and British greed getting in the way of progress has inhibited them from modernizing.

I wouldn't exactly be calling ME ignorant...you're the one who said that Israel has committed as many humanitarian violations as Hamas...which is blatantly false.

However, I will clarify---my problem with Islam isn't really the historical contributions of its culture. TBH, they are kinda irrelevant 1000 years later. As a side point though, many of the contributions of Islamic culture from that time period were actually made by Jews and Christians living within their borders---not Muslims. Now that there are practically no more Jews and Christians living in Muslim countries due to persecution, it makes sense that Islam's contributions have come to a complete halt .

What you said about Islam is true. For a while, the Jews and Christians were far greater enemies than the Jews and Muslims. This true up until the beginning of the 20th century; after which, animosity between Christians and Jews largely subsided.

In the last 50 years or so, the world has seen an incredible trend in globalization. WIth the communication revolution of cell phones and internet and other stuff, every culture of the world has been brought into direct contact with every other. The fact of the er is though---there is no major religion like Islam which advocates world domination and abusive treatment of women.

Christianity, Judaism, and other religions certainly have their shortcomings, but Islam is intrinsically different in its attitude toward those outside the faith.

[CommanderOtto]

dude, I don't want to offend you in any way. I am sure you are a nice guy but what you are saying IS ignorant. Stop making so many generalities like that. If you are so adamant about what you are saying, why don't you go into a mosque and say all of those things?

You say you are not ignorant but if you really are a SMART, DECENT AND RESPECTABLE person, you would not make such derogative comments about a whole religion, ethnic group or nationality. Frankly, I think this conversation is getting out of hand and if we really care about all our members, we shouldn't allow comments like these because one of our members could be muslim and could feel insulted by this.

you can say your opinion, but you have to keep it decent mr. Pi. It's not like I am defending them, but I have travelled you know.. and one thing that really scares me is when people say something negative about other religions or nationalities. It's one of my biggest fears in life. Why? because I have been a foreigner all my life so I know how terrible it is when someone tells you something negative about your country or your beliefs. I've seen it all.

[kjeopardy]

dude, I don't want to offend you in any way. I am sure you are a nice guy but what you are saying IS ignorant. Stop making so many generalities like that. If you are so adamant about what you are saying, why don't you go into a mosque and say all of those things?

You say you are not ignorant but if you really are a SMART, DECENT AND RESPECTABLE person, you would not make such derogative comments about a whole religion, ethnic group or nationality. Frankly, I think this conversation is getting out of hand and if we really care about all our members, we shouldn't allow comments like these because one of our members could be muslim and could feel insulted by this.

you can say your opinion, but you have to keep it decent mr. Pi. It's not like I am defending them, but I have travelled you know.. and one thing that really scares me is when people say something negative about other religions or nationalities. It's one of my biggest fears in life. Why? because I have been a foreigner all my life so I know how terrible it is when someone tells you something negative about your country or your beliefs. I've seen it all.

And here we go...if something ain't PC, it can't be said. Do you understand the concept of a generalization??...except in math, it is not always true. I never said that there are NO Muslims who defy their religion and are decent people regardless. They comprise the majority. It's interesting though how you don't take exception to Pepsi claiming that Israel commits humanitarian violations---which is just not true.

You get me wrong---I have no problem with foreigners coming to America. Hispanics, Asians, and others come to America in pursuit of the American Dream (although now that dream hardly exists) and to better their lives. Part of what has made this nation so successful is its willingness to accept everyone.

However, I think this idealism should only extend to people who agree with the spirit and values of America. The religion of Islam is, in every facet of its ideology, opposed to civil liberties, tolerance, and respect for women.


And thanks for making my point---you believe that the qualities I described Islam as having to be derogatory.

I'm not surprised to find another bleeding heart and Muslim apologist, so don't worry your pretty little head...While appreciate the fact that you have been a foreigner---I don't see why you should care if people say things that are derogatory about your country if they are true.

What I am saying about the religion of Islam is 100% correct. I will admit that perhaps I was too dismissive of some of the brighter aspects of Islamic history, but I am on the mark in regard to the religion.

And don't call me "mr. pi"

What you request is typical of the 21st century Muslim apologist---ignore the facts cause they lead us to something that isn't PC, and pretend that things are the way we wish they could be.