I have a gun problem... need suggestions

[mrjamwin]

I don't understand why people can own so many guns. Like, why are normal people allowed to have an arsenal at home? Why won't one revolver do to defend your house? No, people think it's a good idea to have automatic weapons, like the ones used in a war and keep them in their homes.

then we have maniacs who buy these weapons and use them in schools. I feel outraged at the mom of the kid from the connecticut massacre. Not only did she give him access to 5 weapons (which is a total and complete exaggeration) but she also took him to the gun range at a young age. You don't give guns to kids!! It's incredible how normal citizens have war-like weapons at home, sometimes better than those used by the police. I feel so sad for those kids at that school... if only this would never happen again. And what about the a-hole from the cinema shooting in the batman movie? The guy even had tear gas. Why are people allowed to buy tear gas? Only the military or police officers should be allowed to buy those type of things. So, at least if no one is going to ban guns, at least add control to limit the type of weapons that are being sold out there. No one should have or be able to have grenades or automatic weapons... Arsenals are only for the government.

What's it to you if a private, law abiding citizen has a collection of guns that they enjoy as a hobby and a sport? Who are you to say that they should not be allowed? Just because of your ignorance and lack of understanding shouldn't dictate that someone shouldn't own as many guns as they want? The mother took her son to the gun range to teach him properly the importance of knowledge in gun handling and safety. Teaching a child how to use one is the best way for them to understand that guns aren't toys. Yet our society is propegated with guns. Everywhere you look there are toys that represent the glorification of violence yet no one protests that. Why are drunk drivers still allowed to be on the road after multiple times of being caught? The statistics for people texting and driving getting into accidents and kiling people is on the rise yet they haven't banned that. Should we ban the cars then that the people who chose to drive drunk, high or text? More people die statiscally from car accidents everyday due to someone's lack of proper handling and carelessness then they do guns yet there is no public outcry about that. You need to put things into perspective. If you don't like guns then don't own one, but don't tell me because of your fear and ignorance of them that I shouldn't own them.

[NiteRunner81]

Otto -- I completely understand the frustration, however, as jamwin has pointed out, guns aren't the only things that kill people. Someone killed 20 people with a knife in Japan (or china? I don't rembember.) The mall shooting in Oregon was stopped because there was a concealed carry person aiming at the shooter so the shooter went down a service corridor and shot himself.

Also

On Sunday December 17, 2012, 2 days after the CT shooting, a man went to a restaurant in San Antonio to kill his X-girlfriend. After he shot her, most of the people in the restaurant fled next door to a theater. The gunman followed them and entered the theater so he could shoot more people. He started shooting and people in the theater started running and screaming. It’s like the Aurora, CO theater story plus a restaurant!

Now aren’t you wondering why this isn’t a lead story in the national media along with the school shooting?

There was an off duty county deputy at the theater. SHE pulled out her gun and shot the man 4 times before he had a chance to kill anyone. So since this story makes the point that the best thing to stop a bad person with a gun is a good person with a gun, the media is treating it like it never happened.

Only the local media covered it. The city is giving her a medal next week. *Realtalk

[SWINE FLU]

I have a walking stick and chef's knife to defend myself with. None of that assault rife [poo].

[CommanderOtto]

well that's my opinion jamwin..... i'm not allowed to give my opinion man? Like, how can someone blame me for not wanting more people to die? Just recently a firefighter died because some assassin started shooting with an automatic weapon I think. It's not only a problem for us, but for police officers and firefighters (people who risk their lives for us). haaa, you are calling me ignorant but YOU ARE IGNORANT... For telling me to shut up. Everyone is entitled to say what they want. You are saying "who are you to tell me what to do" when I didn't even mention you. Who are you to tell me what to think? I never called you ignorant for wanting guns.. that's your problem. But I will call you ignorant for not accepting other people's views.

Like, I know many people here like guns, but i don't call them "ignorant" for wanting them. That's their opinion if they like it. hahaha you are talking about good citizenship and yet you call me ignorant for giving my opinion on something that has become national news hahaha.

your hostilities are not welcome here.

[Darth Crater]

Nite - 23 children were injured at a Chinese school. None died.

MD - I'm not the one with an inaccurate picture of reality. The people with fantasies about their homes being invaded by supervillains are.

On the general topic of gun control -you can't do it with laws alone, though I'm not against them. The laws have to flow from a changing culture.

[THEWULFMAN]

I wish I had more time to debate in these topics.

I can't go quoting everyone right now, so I'll just bring up a couple points where I stand on.

The USA will never get rid of guns, laws or not. Adding in gun-control laws just hurts law-abiding citizens more than criminals.

People always bring up Britain and other European coutries when stating that those nations have less gun violence than the USA because they have far stricter gun control. My friend Duke brought up something, and while I can't bring up any sources, I trust him on it. Please feel free to prove us wrong. Britain has more gun violence than the US if you take the far lower population into account. The laws don't solve the problem.

Guns don't kill people no more than pens make spelling mistakes. It's still down to us at the end of the day.

Personally I think schools could use better security, maybe a cop on duty. Plenty of cops need the extra cash.

The reason we can buy military grade weapons, Otto, is because you can't fight as a militia properly without military-grade weapons. And yes, that's what we're supposed to be able to do. Whether it's defend against an invasion (how incredibly impossible that is) or rise up against a corrupt government. You take away the military-grade weapons, you're basically trusting the government to never become corrupt. Like it already isn't.

As far as keeping guns in the house, even if there's only a 1% chance the intruder is armed and has harmful intentions, I still don't like those odds. We have a .22 revolver in our house. Dismantled in two, only my dad knows where the pieces are so neither my mom or myself will kill ourselves with it.

I'll respond to the inevitable counter-arguments but it might take awhile.

[mrjamwin]

well that's my opinion jamwin..... i'm not allowed to give my opinion man? Like, how can someone blame me for not wanting more people to die? Just recently a firefighter died because some assassin started shooting with an automatic weapon I think. It's not only a problem for us, but for police officers and firefighters (people who risk their lives for us). haaa, you are calling me ignorant but YOU ARE IGNORANT... For telling me to shut up. Everyone is entitled to say what they want. You are saying "who are you to tell me what to do" when I didn't even mention you. Who are you to tell me what to think? I never called you ignorant for wanting guns.. that's your problem. But I will call you ignorant for not accepting other people's views.

Like, I know many people here like guns, but i don't call them "ignorant" for wanting them. That's their opinion if they like it. hahaha you are talking about good citizenship and yet you call me ignorant for giving my opinion on something that has become national news hahaha.

your hostilities are not welcome here.

Assassin? Your statements are enflamed with nothing but emotion. Was he really an assassin? Also I never told you to "shut up" I asked you questions, based on your statements and you have yet to answer except for the retort "It's just my opinion" I'm glad it's your opinion but everyone is not entitled to say what they want. You are not allowed by law to liable someone, you can't yell fire in a crowded building or threaten to harm a president of this country. BTW it was 2 firefighters and to Crater then incident in China may not have killed any of the kids but that was his intent he just didn't succeeded and that type of incident has happened mulitple times in China where the person did succeed in the killing the kids. Just for the record.

[NiteRunner81]

My mom had her favorite weapon confiscated at 18 and I am considering buying her a new one -- a gunSTOCK off of a rifle... she used it as a baseball bat... I personally don't own any guns YET, but as a young adult I would carry around a 2 foot section of reebar in my trunk. for a while I carried around a hatchet....

The way to tackle the problems of mass shootings (and just think, this solution would work for any mass violence) is to address the subject of mental health. Strip the vacant prisons down -- turn them into mental facilities. The person that did the Oregon Mall shooting did so after a break in reality over missing a flight to Hawaii.. he then STOLE the gun from a legal owner.. If he could have gotten help it would have prevented that shooting.

EDIT: (I'm going off this page of the discussion alone)... OTTO: It is one thing to accuse someone of suffering from ignorance, and a lack of understanding, it is another thing to outright call someone ignorant.. Your post is rather inflamed (by the use of bolding). Jamwin provided other examples such as cars or cell phones killing people because of those idiots that text and drive or drink and drive. It is a parallel situation. Are cell phones and cars really going to be outlawed? They do equal harm.

[Darth Crater]

Nite, Wulf - I certainly agree that focusing on mental health is a good idea and that laws themselves won't alter the culture much.

People always bring up Britain and other European coutries when stating that those nations have less gun violence than the USA because they have far stricter gun control. My friend Duke brought up something, and while I can't bring up any sources, I trust him on it. Please feel free to prove us wrong. Britain has more gun violence than the US if you take the far lower population into account. The laws don't solve the problem.

Their murder rate per capita is far lower too.

Guns don't kill people no more than pens make spelling mistakes. It's still down to us at the end of the day.

But they do make killing people easier, as Jamwin has helpfully agreed. Including killing people unintentionally, or suicide.

The reason we can buy military grade weapons, Otto, is because you can't fight as a militia properly without military-grade weapons. And yes, that's what we're supposed to be able to do. Whether it's defend against an invasion (how incredibly impossible that is) or rise up against a corrupt government. You take away the military-grade weapons, you're basically trusting the government to never become corrupt. Like it already isn't.

Jefferson's vision has been completely obsoleted by modern military hardware - it doesn't matter how many assault weapons you have when the government has tanks and air superiority. At best you can go Al-Quaeda in the Rockies or something, not overthrow a government.

As far as keeping guns in the house, even if there's only a 1% chance the intruder is armed and has harmful intentions, I still don't like those odds. We have a .22 revolver in our house. Dismantled in two, only my dad knows where the pieces are so neither my mom or myself will kill ourselves with it.

If it's in two pieces, it's not exactly going to be useful for defense, is it?

Do you have any problems with the study I quoted a couple pages back? As far as I can tell, it indicates that owning a gun is more likely to hurt you than it is to help. I would appreciate useful criticism aimed at it, of course.

[haasd0gg]