immigration reform

[CommanderOtto]

It has been in the news lately. What do you guys think about it. Support or No Support?

If Obama is planning to bring an amnesty to all the illegals, then I wouldn't like it. However, if it means giving a path to citizenship to those who have been here for about 15 years, paying taxes and respecting the law... well, I guess it wouldn't be that bad because those types of people are not going to leave anyway.. might as well reward the good guys. Still, I was thinking about all of this immigration reform thing and it would be pretty unfair if it allowed illegal immigrants to obtain permanent residence/citizenship when there are so many international students such as myself who are here legally, obtaining american degrees. I mean, I will soon graduate in an american university but I have to leave when I finish studying.. thus, taking my american degree, my american skill and expertise to another country. Would it be fair to tell all the international students to leave when they graduate when the government is giving papers to people who are breaking the law in the first place?

oh well, it's just a few thoughts I was having about it... i'm just curious about what the average american thinks. As you write your post though, keep in mind there are people with hispanic backgrounds in these forums, so keep it decent.

[WD-40]

As far as 'Foreigners' getting Degrees in the USA, the Universities somehow feel they are losing $$$ by not allowing foreign countries pay big $$$ to allow their Foreign exchange 'students' study and degree here. It's all about money. Thats all. But as far as the Mexican Amnesty, it's only about the 'votes'. 11 Million more registered liberal Democrats wanting their free [poo]. It's a no brainer for future Democratic Party victories. BUT, I predict within 20 years, if your name doesn't 'sound' Hispanic, you'd ain't gettin elected!

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[kjeopardy]

It has been in the news lately. What do you guys think about it. Support or No Support?

If Obama is planning to bring an amnesty to all the illegals, then I wouldn't like it. However, if it means giving a path to citizenship to those who have been here for about 15 years, paying taxes and respecting the law... well, I guess it wouldn't be that bad because those types of people are not going to leave anyway.. might as well reward the good guys. Still, I was thinking about all of this immigration reform thing and it would be pretty unfair if it allowed illegal immigrants to obtain permanent residence/citizenship when there are so many international students such as myself who are here legally, obtaining american degrees. I mean, I will soon graduate in an american university but I have to leave when I finish studying.. thus, taking my american degree, my american skill and expertise to another country. Would it be fair to tell all the international students to leave when they graduate when the government is giving papers to people who are breaking the law in the first place?

oh well, it's just a few thoughts I was having about it... i'm just curious about what the average american thinks. As you write your post though, keep in mind there are people with hispanic backgrounds in these forums, so keep it decent.

Don't worry...my opinions have absolutely nothing to do with people's race. And Hispanics aren't a "fifth column", so nothing to discuss there.

I have absolutely no problem with immigration in general. Yes, it does need to be restricted—meaning that everyone living in Mexico and Central American can't come here—but historically, immigration has proved itself beneficial to our economy.

With illegal immigration: Obama is simply too weak. There are many Hispanics who wait to come here legally, and pay taxes in return for living within the US. It makes a mockery of our government to have 11 million people blatantly disregarding our laws and border rights.

Notwithstanding all this, I am sympathetic to the political and social turmoil that ruins many people's lives; I understand that we are privileged to live in the US, and that for the most part, illegal immigrants seek a better life here just like legal immigrants do. As such, it would be ridiculous to displace 11 million people.

I am in favor of Obama's plan (egad!) if and only if it is enforced to the letter, and isn't applied liberally. Obama's plan calls for

1) Illegal immigrants will be sent to the back of the waiting list for citizenship, and they
2) Must learn English before being granted citizenship
3) Must incur financial penalty for having come here illegally

What WD says is important too. Hispanics vote reliably Democrat (except for Cubans). As such, we don't exactly want 11 million more Democratic voters in this country, which would tip the political balance toward the moronic and anti-American left. Welfare and immigration are basically how an American apologist (with family living here illegally) who can't pronounce "corpsmen" managed to become president in this joke country.

I also think that illegals shouldn't be able to receive free-medical care (i.e. by going to an emergency room) as citizens can.Yes, illegal immigrants are people, but no: we should not have to pay for them when they are undermining our economy. Obamacare should be amended to include provisions to this end.

I thought that the Arizona immigration law that was struck down was a shame; someone finally had the guts to say that enough is enough, and the Supreme Court struck down the only good "illegal immigration" disincentive in many years.

IN CONCLUSION: We can't deport 11 million people, so we have to make them citizens. At the same time, we need to tighten our laws as to make life miserable for people coming here illegally. This will make legal immigration (which I fully support) the only viable option.

Believe me, I understand WHY people want to come here, and why they sometimes do so illegally. But it is practically unfeasible to have an "open border" and let anyone who can walk come here.

(Sorry this is kinda disorganized and badly phrased, I'm tired :P)

[Darth Crater]

What I want to see happen:
-If they're living here, make them citizens. It's the only approach that doesn't have a horrible outcome for a large number of people. No, it's not "fair", but I'd rather see immigrants disliked for getting in "for free" than see them lacking the support structure that citizenship gives you.
-Fix the temporary visas somehow. A large proportion - some say around half - of the "illegals" are people who entered legally and overstayed, not people who snuck across the border.
-Eliminate incentives for importing or hiring illegals (things like secretly bringing people in to work fruit farms below minimum wage). Not sure how best to do this. Making it easy for them to get citizenship will help though.

By the way, WD and Pi: Hispanics are typically socially conservative and would probably vote Republican if the Republicans didn't keep projecting the "old, rich, racist white men" image. Talking about "self-deportation" certainly didn't help Romney's case.

[CommanderOtto]

well, let me tell you, illegal immigration laws in the U.S are very weak. Even Brazil, a country in development has better illegal immigration laws than in the U.S (a first world country). If you were illegal in Brazil, you would not able to:

1. buy/rent a house
2. buy a car
3. obtain credit (loans)
4. open a bank account
5. obtain a driver's license
6. obtain social security
5. obtain a decent job.

Basically, it's almost impossible to be be illegal in Brazil and live decently (in a country that is nowhere close to the lifestyle of the U.S). The only reason Bolivians still go there is because it is still much worse in Bolivia. I suppose, however, that if illegal immigration laws were as loose as in the U.S, all of Bolivia would be in Sao Paulo by now. Here, most illegals have most of the things in the list I just mentioned, which proves that the law needs to be reinforced by more laws, instead of wasting more money in building a wall in the border.

EDIT: more laws to reduce the amount of people overstaying or crossing the border. However, the current problem has to be solved somehow though. If citizenship is given to almost all the 11 million illegals, at least there must be something to be done to reduce the flow. If I were mexican and I knew about this immigration reform, I would pack and cross the border tomorrow, hoping I benefit from the current situation.

and regarding WD's quote:

As far as 'Foreigners' getting Degrees in the USA, the Universities somehow feel they are losing $$$ by not allowing foreign countries pay big $$$ to allow their Foreign exchange 'students' study and degree here

I'm not exactly sure what you mean. All my classrooms are full of Chinese and Arabs, funded by their governments.

[WD-40]

What I want to see happen:
WD and Pi: Hispanics are typically socially conservative and would probably vote Republican if the Republicans didn't keep projecting the "old, rich, racist white men" image. Talking about "self-deportation" certainly didn't help Romney's case.

Well, based on what I've read recently regarding Hispanic voting percentages on the last Prez election results, that plausible observation seems to have been observed by the entire Republican side based on just the Immigration issue alone. One can only hope they don't consider the free handouts they so easily receive here vs Mexico (free Hospital/clinic care included) as their gravitation to the Democratic side, but through experience , I'm not optimistic. Mexicans have had it rough in Mexico... That's a reality. However, Democrats in the USA have always been about the poor and free handouts vs self empowerment and personal responsibility. The path to least resistance is the Democratic side for all the stuff you want to survive. Ergo, vote Docrat=get free [poo]. The blacks had that figured out decades ago. My Mom worked the polls in Cincinnati, Ohio for the past 50+ years in my hometown, and that has been her observations over the years. No disputing the facts.

[CommanderOtto]

What I want to see happen:
WD and Pi: Hispanics are typically socially conservative and would probably vote Republican

I'm not from any side political side, but I know how hispanics think... I can confirm what Crater just said

[WD-40]

Sorry...had a busy and long 2 days traveling, and about to go to bed. Edited 4 times and still with errors before catching Otto had posted already. I'm tired. Just hope Craters right...bottom line for me. G'night.

[Darth Crater]

Yeah, Bush Jr got 35-45% of the Hispanic vote. If the Republicans took a different strategy they could have raised that instead of dropping to 31% in 2008 and 27% in 2012 (by the way, nearly every other demographic went right in 2012 - but the Hispanics went left). They might even have been able to keep their "anti-illegal" stance if they spun it right and didn't get viewed as "anti-Hispanic". Running a non-Caucasian candidate, which they may well do in 2016, could help - we'll see if it's too late or not. On the other hand, if they keep failing, Texas will soon be a swing state.

WD, call it "free handouts" if you want. I'll stick with the world where less people are starving, crippled, and dead.

[Col. Hstar]

As far as the whole thing about people wanting free stuff, I would like to point out that there are times where someone falls on hard times and needs a help from the government. Not everyone who needs to get money from unemployment or medical expenses covered does it simply because they are lazy.

Some people have diseases that can knock them back on their ass so hard that they physically can't go back to their old job, they can't sustain the income they need and because of this they lose the healthcare they had. It might take a few months but it does help ones to get back on their feet.

If this had never been the case for anyone here then count your blessings. Instead of being critical of the "idea" of government aid, be critical of those who give out the aid without properly investigating the ones taking the aid.