The God Damned Gun Control Thread

[CommanderOtto]

I have two questions:

1. can the constitution be amended to the point where guns would be completely banned? (if guns are banned, then it's not an amendment, it's a right that is being eliminated, as I see it, even if I don't approve of guns)
2. are the new laws limiting guns an amendment? or are they just laws?

I don't know if i'm making much sense?

I mean, one thing is to slightly change a law in the constitution... another thing is to eliminate the right to hold guns. I mean, even though I don't like guns, it is a right that was added there. So, if holding a gun is a Right, then that means it has the same weight as the Right of Freedom of Speech?

just trying to understand the legal aspect of it though...

[Darth Crater]

1. can the constitution be amended to the point where guns would be completely banned? (if guns are banned, then it's not an amendment, it's a right that is being eliminated, as I see it, even if I don't approve of guns)

Theoretically, yes. See the Eighteenth Amendment for precedent on banning classes of object, and the Twenty-First for precedent on overwriting previous amendments.

2. are the new laws limiting guns an amendment? or are they just laws?

No. An amendment to the Constitution occurs in specific ways, as per Article V. Ordinary laws passed by Congress are not amendments.

That said, rights are not unlimited - there are plenty of places where your right to free speech does not extend. In the case of conflict between rights, I think it's up to the Supreme Court, but I'm not sure on that.

Aside from all of that, the Second Amendment's wording is often considered ambiguous. To the point where I'd be willing to pool together with the pro-gun group just to get it rewritten one way or another in modern language.

[Col. Hstar]

Isn't that the role of government? I'm sure that if simply saying "be good" worked then that's what they would do.

Here is the page with the rules we have to follow here
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3958
It's not much shorter then the declaration of independence. This is just for a video game server

[Dad]

Crater, check the crime stats in any or every country immediately after a gun ban went into effect.

They skyrocketed because criminals don't obey laws. Sure, gun deaths went down. Almost every other type of crime went up.

I live in New Jersey where it is a crime to defend yourself, even from an animal. Check the crime stats for my state, aside from gun deaths.

We will become a nation of victims, mark my words.

[Darth Crater]

Crater, check the crime stats in any or every country immediately after a gun ban went into effect.

They skyrocketed because criminals don't obey laws. Sure, gun deaths went down. Almost every other type of crime went up.

I live in New Jersey where it is a crime to defend yourself, even from an animal. Check the crime stats for my state, aside from gun deaths.

We will become a nation of victims, mark my words.

Do you have specific examples? I've heard Australia cited, but that appears to be false. I've also heard Britain mentioned, but, the conclusion there also seems to be "no significant change."

[CommanderOtto]

anyway, I think the best answer to these types of statistical problems is to just do one of those "gun deaths per 100,000" and compare the results from Australia and the U.S. Maybe one of those organizations like the World Bank or the IMF or even the U.N might have those numbers.

PS: thanks for the legal explanation above... I really had that confused.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Crater, check the crime stats in any or every country immediately after a gun ban went into effect.

They skyrocketed because criminals don't obey laws. Sure, gun deaths went down. Almost every other type of crime went up.

I live in New Jersey where it is a crime to defend yourself, even from an animal. Check the crime stats for my state, aside from gun deaths.

We will become a nation of victims, mark my words.

Do you have specific examples? I've heard Australia cited, but that appears to be false. I've also heard Britain mentioned, but, the conclusion there also seems to be "no significant change."

In 1938, Germany banned Jews from owning firearms. Within the next eight years 6 million Jews were exterminated.

[Darth Crater]

... Not only did we cover this back on page 4, but that isn't even evidence that gun restrictions will increase crime.

[Son]

... Not only did we cover this back on page 4, but that isn't even evidence that gun restrictions will increase crime.

We did... and your right.

It isn't evidence on what gun restrictions will do to crime stats, its evidence on what has happened in the past when government gets rid of weapons that can keep them in check.

[Darth Crater]

Which is something entirely separate from the discussion we were currently having.

Also, we already covered this. The solution is not to elect Nazis.