The God Damned Gun Control Thread

[Duel of Fates]

Reading the responses from Crater, the Col., and the other kids makes me realize how [m'kay] up the education system and the media are. I am not angry with the kids, they are a product of their society. It pisses me off that real world wisdom and life experiences are ignored and dismissed so casually. You kids are not going to unlock the secrets of LIFE by copy/pasted "facts". I grew up listening to my father, uncles, grandparents, and others who lived through World War II, the Korean Conflict, and Viet Nam. I would have been [female dog] slapped if I kept asking for proof. I have to say, the future of this society is bleak.

[CommanderOtto]

I think you guys are taking the issue as if it was the end of the world. All of you will continue to have guns... just smaller ones. The difference is that instead of shooting a thief with a thousand rounds per minute, you'll just have to use those few bullets in the handgun. But just cause some people don't agree with you guys, that doesn't mean we don't appreciate experience. ... ... nothing you learn in school compares to what what you have to go through when you have to work, and you have to get the money to put food on the table and you have to have a corrupt or dickhead boss who doesn't listen. You have to worry if whether you will do a good job or if you will just mess up one day and get fired. Then you don't know if you will be able to pay all those bills if you are out of a job and loose your house to the bank.... not to mention all the responsibilities that come when you are married and have kids.

Still, my point is, even though I am sure most of us here appreciate experience (at least I do), that doesn't mean that we can't disagree with guns. I am sure there are also plenty of men that actually have a life and prefer to see less guns.

Either way, there is nothing you guys have to worry about cause guns will never stop being produced in the U.S.... As far as I know, these new laws are just to limit one type of weapon: assault rifles. I thought the laws where an amendment to the constitution... it is not even an amendment, so it is not messing with any rights as far I know.

Guns bring more violence only the authorities should have them... that's why things like this have to happen:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/14/world/ame ... hantytowns

[Darth Crater]

... My respect for "experienced" people lasted up until the point I made it to the internet, at which point I discovered that it was trivially easy for those "experienced" people to be wrong on a great many things. Humans are very good at believing false things. This is why I do not trust anyone's "experience," including my own, over actual data.

Not replying to this topic any further until tomorrow.

[Duel of Fates]

Guns bring more violence only the authorities should have them...

Thank you for proving my point. You have completely missed, and will continue to miss the whole idea behind the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. If you give the authority solely to the government, then you have willingly enslaved yourself to the state. Your rights that you take for granted, will vanish. The right to free speech, the right to congregate, the right of the free press, the right to chew gum and pick your nose, all gone. And I blame our education system and media that have systematicaly dumbed down society to the point that you actually think that your statement is a good idea. Bleak times coming.

... My respect for "experienced" people lasted up until the point I made it to the internet, at which point I discovered that it was trivially easy for those "experienced" people to be wrong on a great many things. Humans are very good at believing false things. This is why I do not trust anyone's "experience," including my own, over actual data.

On the one hand, you have a rational basic statement, the internet cannot be trusted. Then you conclude it with you trust the data over all else. Even though the data you are looking at comes from the internet, which cannot be trusted. Sad.

[Darth Crater]

On the one hand, you have a rational basic statement, the internet cannot be trusted. Then you conclude it with you trust the data over all else. Even though the data you are looking at comes from the internet, which cannot be trusted. Sad.

I cannot conceive of a way in which my statement could be more fundamentally misread than what you have done here.

[Duel of Fates]

On the one hand, you have a rational basic statement, the internet cannot be trusted. Then you conclude it with you trust the data over all else. Even though the data you are looking at comes from the internet, which cannot be trusted. Sad.

I cannot conceive of a way in which my statement could be more fundamentally misread than what you have done here.

I am old. Maybe I misread. Where do you get most of your data?

[Darth Crater]

"The internet cannot be trusted" was never the point I was making, though it's not entirely false. "Personal experience cannot be trusted" is my point. Any one person's personal beliefs have no magical truth quality, regardless of their so-called "experience."

For example, I'm sure we can both agree that the Hindu religion is wrong. Yet look at how many wise, experienced Hindus there are.

[CommanderOtto]

Guns bring more violence only the authorities should have them...

Thank you for proving my point. You have completely missed, and will continue to miss the whole idea behind the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment. If you give the authority solely to the government, then you have willingly enslaved yourself to the state. Your rights that you take for granted, will vanish. The right to free speech, the right to congregate, the right of the free press, the right to chew gum and pick your nose, all gone. And I blame our education system and media that have systematicaly dumbed down society to the point that you actually think that your statement is a good idea. Bleak times coming.

dude, you don't understand why I say that. Most of the world is not first world like in the U.S. I'm not saying that Brazil is a piece of [poo] either. However, my experience living in south america tells me this:

1. people can't overthrow a government unless an army is created. People can't make the government respect your rights just by having guns. If having guns was the solution, certain presidents wouldn't be a problem anymore. A news channel is being shut down by a dictatorship... what am I going to do with guns? Am I going to congress and shoot the people who make laws violating free speech? That would only get me killed or be sent to some dungeon (and I don't even bother calling it jail, cause it is a dungeon filled with rats, garbage, fecal er, and maniacs)

2. in some other countries like Brazil, there is no dictatorship... but the government is inefficient. No one knows how bad it is to be a police officer and wake up every morning, risk your life every single day because all the slums in Rio de Janeiro are controlled by the drug traffickers, who are rich, powerful and have many weapons. A politician says something about the trafickers and the guy is killed. A police officer wants to bring the law but he can't or he'll be shot down by some guys in a passing car with some semiautomatic or automatic guns. Police officers can't do their job like that... People who live in these places can't live in peace. People who own business can't operate without corruption. It is a problem that has destroyed the lives of many people.

let me get a few news from everyday brazil in those areas...... you'll see why i say that. All of you guys have been living ok here. Getting good salaries, enjoying parks, no traffick jams, police officers have everything under control (most of the time). I have lived well most of my life, but what about the people who live in the slums? or the police officers who have to do their job? If you lived in one of those places, you would understand. The other day some drug traffickers in the slums shot down a chopper by using a heavy automatic weapon, seriously.

now, I respect all of your opinions. If you guys think having guns is better, who am I to argue, but hell, if I had to choose, I would say no guns. And I had to explain this so you guys don't call me some "liberal kid" or something. I believe in not having guns being better, for a reason. The reason is that I have lived in these countries with these problems... it's not that i'm some idealist reading books about world peace or something. I hope you guys understand where i'm coming from.

nuff said

[Duel of Fates]

"The internet cannot be trusted" was never the point I was making, though it's not entirely false. "Personal experience cannot be trusted" is my point. Any one person's personal beliefs have no magical truth quality, regardless of their so-called "experience."

For example, I'm sure we can both agree that the Hindu religion is wrong. Yet look at how many wise, experienced Hindus there are.

Per your example: Why is the Hindu religion wrong? I do not agree with you at all. Because it is different, does not make it wrong, nor right. Just different. That statement alone shows you to be unwise. I could go on for pages on the Hindu religions. I studied them when I was younger and questioned all religions.

Personal experience and personal beliefs are not the same animal. So your distrust of one, should not negate the other.

And, it seems, I did not misread your earlier post.

[Darth Crater]

Poor choice of example then. I thought you were Christian (and thus your beliefs were fundamentally incompatible with Hinduism). Substitute instead... I don't know, maybe people who are completely convinced they were abducted by UFO's?

Now, since I apparently cannot stop myself from being misinterpreted, back to my original plan of not posting things.