The God Damned Gun Control Thread

[WD-40]

Again with the founding fathers. Are those the same forefathers who allowed slavery to continue another 70+ years. While declaring that they wanted freedom from England. The same ones who denied women the rights men had, while saying there should be equal rights to all? It doesn't seem like they had the perfect system back then because gee education is a big problem now....

Oh wait except of course when it came to guns, they were dead on accurate about guns. They knew every person should have the right to be armed to the teeth. Except of course the slaves.

Again you missed the point. The northern states did not want to include slavery in the constitution, but the southern states would not ratify the constitution unless there was an inclusion of the slavery issue in it. To preserve the union, the northern states reluctantly agreed. The right to bear arms was agreed to by all the states as necessary to protect the union from corruption.

Slavery was never an issue when it came to protecting the union. But it was an issue for the southern states because that was a huge part of their infrastructure. The Civil War settled that issue with the introduction of the civil rights act of 1866. Slavery, obviously, was a wrong that was corrected.

However, our government is just as corrupt as it ever was in the past. Therefore, as our forefathers figured, the right to bear arms is still as important today as it was in the past. It is the citizens last line of defense.

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

Education is a right. No child should have to suffer or accept a lower standard of living because they don't have the ability to advance. We claim our country is the "Land of Opportunity," so let's live up to that image. We have prided ourselves on accomplishing the American Dream, stepping outside societal norms, and forging our own paths. If we as a community recognize that this opportunity only exists if everyone has a fair chance, we have to band together to make that illusion a reality.

You claim to fear the Government's "abuse of power?" Without teaching kids how to think for themselves, giving them a chance to succeed, you only further the aristocracy's ability to manipulate everyone else.

[CommanderOtto]

Education is a right.

please see my last post you will be surprised =(

[WD-40]

I totally believe that every American citizen child should be properly educated and afforded the opportunity to do so. The problem is money, getting good teachers, paying them properly, and weeding out the crappy teachers. Then you also need students to all have the desire to learn. Unfortunately, all of the above does not happen as we would like it to.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

A right to health coverage and education? Uhhh, no. That's not a right and does not need to be. As for my sacrifices, I've made plenty and am sure to make many more.

I'm on my phone so can't really type much more...

On my phone too. Please clarify though in your next response.
When it comes to gun violence you blame people who are mentally unstable and people who don't have self worth due to government handouts.

To fix it you want the government to step in and give aid to the mentally unstable (Charge these people to get the help? Or give them free medical care?) Then you want to take away the aid it is giving to poor people because is time they make a sacrafice. (Creating more kids who will turn to gangs and crime because they don't want to be the only ones sacrificing)

This is supposed to lower violence!?? Hey at least they will still have the right to arm themselves easily.

Dude, I'm not going to clarify another thing for you. It's all been said.

Here... http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charte ... dom_1.html
freedom of speech, check
right to bear arms, check
no troops in my house, check
healthcare, nope
education, nope
food stamps, nope

You see where I'm coming from? I really don't care if you do or don't, this is how I see it and there's no change in sight. I'm amazed at your train of thought, or lack thereof, but like I said earlier....to each his own.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Education is a right.

Show me.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Also nobody is holding gun-makers responsible. I know that the corporations fear that hypothetical, but it's not at all a reality.

600-spoons-made-me-fat.jpg

Any nut job could stand on a corner, I'm talking about serious lawsuits where the gun companies are held responsible in recent years.
Not to mention there is stuff like this out there...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 00485.html

If gun companies can be held liable, then so can beer companies, auto manufacturers, McDonalds, and even this place.... http://www.heartattackgrill.com/
It'll be every personal injury lawyer's wet dream.

[Col. Hstar]

Dude, I'm not going to clarify another thing for you. It's all been said.

freedom of speech, check
right to bear arms, check
no troops in my house, check
healthcare, nope
education, nope
food stamps, nope

You see where I'm coming from? I really don't care if you do or don't, this is how I see it and there's no change in sight. I'm amazed at your train of thought, or lack thereof, but like I said earlier....to each his own.

You're right, to each his own. For me I feel that guns are a much bigger problem then one's personal rights. Yeah I know that makes some people here angry but oh well. It seems to me that people need to look beyond what he or she want for themselves, but who am I kidding, that'll never happen in this day and age

As far as asking for clarification, yes you had said it, but it didn't make sense. You blame governmental handouts as on of the reason for gun violence and say they should stop, but then on the other hand you say the government should step in and help cure the mentally unstable. Well who's supposed to pay for that? The people who are mentally unstable wouldn't want to, it'll become another handout which you're so against. So you see where it doesn't make sense. You offer a problem without a solution.

My solution would work with yours. Put a registration and licensing fee on gun owner's, then use that for funding to help mentally unstable, if you really need assault weapons those can have higher registration fees. Close the loop holes of buying at a gun show so no one can't circumvent the ID checks or the taxes.. It works much the way license and registration fees on cars go to servicing the roads and highways. That same way people who drive incur the cost of road safety, people who own guns can incur the cost of gun safety. At the same time guns are regulated and owners are checked periodically for competency and stability. To me this would be worth it if just one of those massacres could have been stopped.

Of course I already know the objection to this one because no one ever wants to look beyond their own personal comfort. It's just the way of the world where it's to each his own.

[mrjamwin]

Dude, I'm not going to clarify another thing for you. It's all been said.

freedom of speech, check
right to bear arms, check
no troops in my house, check
healthcare, nope
education, nope
food stamps, nope

You see where I'm coming from? I really don't care if you do or don't, this is how I see it and there's no change in sight. I'm amazed at your train of thought, or lack thereof, but like I said earlier....to each his own.

You're right, to each his own. For me I feel that guns are a much bigger problem then one's personal rights. Yeah I know that makes some people here angry but oh well. It seems to me that people need to look beyond what he or she want for themselves, but who am I kidding, that'll never happen in this day and age

As far as asking for clarification, yes you had said it, but it didn't make sense. You blame governmental handouts as on of the reason for gun violence and say they should stop, but then on the other hand you say the government should step in and help cure the mentally unstable. Well who's supposed to pay for that? The people who are mentally unstable wouldn't want to, it'll become another handout which you're so against. So you see where it doesn't make sense. You offer a problem without a solution.

My solution would work with yours. Put a registration and licensing fee on gun owner's, then use that for funding to help mentally unstable, if you really need assault weapons those can have higher registration fees. Close the loop holes of buying at a gun show so no one can't circumvent the ID checks or the taxes.. It works much the way license and registration fees on cars go to servicing the roads and highways. That same way people who drive incur the cost of road safety, people who own guns can incur the cost of gun safety. At the same time guns are regulated and owners are checked periodically for competency and stability. To me this would be worth it if just one of those massacres could have been stopped.

Of course I already know the objection to this one because no one ever wants to look beyond their own personal comfort. It's just the way of the world where it's to each his own.

This is a false statement at least in the state of Colorado. They still and must do background checks and sometime it takes hours and sometimes can take days and until you pass your background check here the gun sellers will not let you have your gun. You can buy it and they will give you a reciept and then after your background clears then you take your receipt and go pickup your gun. I'm pretty sure all the other states have the same circumstances. So I don't think there's a loop hole there.

[Col. Hstar]

Close the loop holes of buying at a gun show so no one can't circumvent the ID checks or the taxes..

This is a false statement at least in the state of Colorado. They still and must do background checks and sometime it takes hours and sometimes can take days and until you pass your background check here the gun sellers will not let you have your gun. You can buy it and they will give you a reciept and then after your background clears then you take your receipt and go pickup your gun. I'm pretty sure all the other states have the same circumstances. So I don't think there's a loop hole there.

It's not a false statement. Only 6 out of 50 states including yours (CA, CO, IL, NY, OR, RI) require background checks on any and every gun sale. The problem is that this shouldn't be something left to the states discretion. nothing prevents someone from going to another state to purchase at a gun show. The loophole is that this is not a federal law.

This law would need to be enforced on the federal level. Of course with the ATF being woefully undermanned the license and registration fees collected could help supplement the funding for more agents. This plan would not limit the guns that could be own, just regulate them. Its a fair balance.