(SWGO)Kren wrote:Bryant wrote:
I have never said that all conflict arose from Islam - they are a relatively new religion. I was only talking about current conflicts.
>Right, define current conflicts: this year, past 10 years, last 100 years? How does the age of the religion have any bearing here?
>Current as in happening now. Age has a bearing because they obviously can't be responsible for anything before their existence...
They haven't twisting anything. The Qur'an specifically says to kill people of scripture to lay and wait for them. It says infidels (Christians/Jews/Anyone opposed to Islam) shouldn't be allowed in a town with a Mosque. They are commanded to do Jihad at least every 10 years (I think) and then they can take a break and lie/deceive people until they recover strength. You have the extremists backwards.
>"They"..who is they, I cannot recall my friends in the past 20 years undertaking a Jihad to go out and kill people?? So is this all Muslims or just the extremists?
So the Mosques in America and the UK prohibit "Infidels" from being allowed to go into that town/City, erm nope that's not the case.
>The so called "Extremists" are the true followers. Is Sharia law implemented in the UK or US? No, that's why. You can't make laws unless you're in power. And it should be clear that there is a difference between that actual nature of the religion and it's followers. The "Extremists" are called extreme because that's the way we view them. They are not extreme in reference to the Qur'an.
The meanings of Jihad:
•A believer's internal struggle to live out the Muslim faith as well as possible
Read the above, or read about Mohammed to know that this is not good
>So essentially learning to cope with day-to-day troubles as well as can be according to their faith, sorry I'd say carry on and think that's what most people do.
>?
•The struggle to build a good Muslim society
Which is done through conquering and implementing Sharia law. Don't forget Islam means peace. Peace that is brought when Allah returns after all the infidels are killed or oppressed and Sharia law is implemented world wide.
>So where has Islam recently conquered another country over the 100 years?
>It doesn't has to be military conquering necessarily and I never said they were very good at it. Egypt.
>I thought a Muslim society was defined as “a number of people, or individuals, possessing a common faith and goal who come together in harmony”?
with the intention of advancing and moving toward their common goal”.
>And what do you think that common goal is. (Again I said earlier that I believe most Muslims are moderate and only choose to follow the peaceful part of Islam). However, for the true colors of Islam, that common goal is what I've been talking about.
•Holy war: the struggle to defend Islam, with force if necessary
Do you have any idea how far this statement goes? Under Sharia, no one can talk against Islam which also means they can't accept other religions. This is an "offense" against Islam and thus must be "defended". I don't know if you heard about a pastor that was going to burn a Qur'an. Muslims in some country (I forgot), said that if he did they were going to kill people. That is defense...
>And if someone decides to burn the flag on a street in the US would people not act and likely confront such an individual? So the right to bear arms seems also be applicable, i.e. in defence. Nobody can talk against Islam however a good proportion of the west is insulting the religion of Islam by indicating that they are extremists and terrorists. I don't think I would be happy being perceived that way.
>No one threatens to start killing people! What I'm saying is there is not freedom of religion or freedom of speech under Islam's political system.
At the moment Bryant you are focusing on the third point only.
And you are blinded by the seemingly goodness of the others.
>So according to your initial statement: Islam is a corrupt and evil religion. You want others to believe that their religion is evil but yet it has over 1 Billion followers who pray and worship on a regular basis and operate cohesively within a community.
>Just like I believe that the majority of Christians don't truly follow the teachings of the Bible, don't you think it would be the same for Islam as well. And as far as cohesive community - most of the time they are killing each other because of faction differences (see Iraq and many other countries), and don't forget the severe oppression of women. In Egypt, the people are saying that it was better under the previous dictator than the Muslim Brotherhood.
This would be part of the Corruptness. Similar to how the Muslim Brotherhood is against homosexuals, when Mohammed had sex with guys and part of the virgins in heaven includes men and women (and to make it clear, only men get this - so it's not like women are suppose to get one and men the other)
>So all the people who are against homosexuals in the world not just Islam, is that not the same thing without the title of "brotherhood", these people are referenced as homophobic and they exist in and outside of religion?
>I wasn't saying it is corrupt to be against homosexuals, it was a reference to internal corruption about it's actual teachings.
When the news broke that the bomber had been identified as a person with brown skin, bam!...it must be a Muslim. The thought was injected into everyone's mind to reference Muslims/Islam via the media. This is clearly how you took it and is evident by the way you have responded.
Again, I have never said anything to this. You are twisting what I'm saying to fit your agenda of how I "should be" if I don't agree with your viewpoint. And as it turns out, it seems they are Muslim from the latest news articles, but I don't know if it can be trusted yet.
>Agenda...I don't have one, just pointing out relevant points associated with this topic.
>Everyone has an agenda. It's not always clear cut or obvious. And it's not always bad.
In every society there are crackpots everywhere, those individuals whose purpose is to kill because of what they believe in or due to the fact they are mentally unstable. This could be that the kid next door or the grandma at the end of the street. What difference would it have made if the persons who undertook the bombings were white Christian middle class Americans?
The difference is that it is clearly and plainly written in the Qur'an that this is what they should be doing!!! I wish I could find this one amazing video that I watched a couple years ago. It was 2 hours long and went into great detail on this subject.
>Ok so because it is written in a holy book means that the Islamic population is going to do this, again really, you really think they are actively doing this?
>REALLY?!?! Open your eyes and look around at the world. That holy book is the basis of the religion. And again I'm not saying that the entire Islamic population is the same, that's stereotyping and results in ignorance of other facets of a group.
What has happened in the US is shocking and disturbing when you know people have been killed and maimed. I don't want to detract from anyone's loss or feeling or sadness but the crusade of "us vs. them", "Christian vs. Islam" should be more along the lines of "right vs. wrong".
This is only about right and wrong.
>Any fanatical religion has the capacity for serious harm, history is littered with it however you posted about Islam because apparently this is the religion of the bombers, so you brought it up and dragged this into the mix even though you agree it's only about right and wrong or did I read that incorrectly?
> I don't understand how you can't see that Islam, (the Qur'an, Mohamed) call for this kind of action as what is expected from it's followers. This is not a radical element of the religion, it is the primary element. It was brought up as a natural part of the conversation because of false assumption being made by people which I chose to clear up.
I'm not the deluded one here..
Clearly you are.
You don't seem to understand that there is a clear difference between Islam and Muslims (or are assuming that I'm talking about them as one thing). One is a religion the other is a group of people. And as human beings they could probably never follow the religion perfectly even if they wanted too. As an analogy: Westboro Baptist Church (which is not actually part of any baptist group - they are independent), claims to be Christian and even cite the Bible - however, it is quite obvious that they are acting in contradiction to Christ's teaching, yet they still call themselves Christians.
In Islam, the peaceful teachings are often a very attractive part of the religion. As such they have many followers that follow the peaceful portion, and do not follow the violent parts. However, the Qur'an no longer teaches peace (it follows a nullification rule, meaning anything written later that is in contradiction to earlier parts will override the previous commands).
I have not and never will call Muslims, as a whole, evil. I'm only talking about the religion of Islam. And there are plenty of people that follow its true teachings...
Having these kinds of arguments pains me too much, so this is my last post on this topic. If you can't understand what I'm saying then it's pointless anyways. One last thing, don't be so quick to judge people as racists or deluded, even if you truly think you're in the right.
Second last thing,
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/ChristianAttacks.htm. I kind of just stumbled across that page. I really wish it had links to news articles or something, as I am an eternal skeptic by nature even about things I agree with... But at the very least I know some of the current ones are accurate, specifically 4/7/2013, 3/24/2013. Even if only half of them are accurate, it is a scare picture that there are so many people that take Islam and the Qur'an's teachings quite seriously.
Third last thing (sorry), the only reason I'm so adamant about this is because here we are sitting in safety saying that there is nothing wrong with Islam when it turning children into bombers, men into terrorists, and it's so sad - yet here the western world is just closing its eyes and pretending what it wants to believe. (again, I'm not saying this is all Muslims)
*Sorry if there are any typos, I'm really tired
