Living abroad

[Sir Bang]

So, I’ve been meaning to do this thread for a while. Basically, I would like to hear from those of you who have ever lived abroad. In particular I’m looking to Otto and WD here (and maybe Yanoda?) who I know do live/have lived/are frequently living abroad away from home, though feel free to chime in if you’ve also done it, or have a related experience to share.

I want to know what the challenges were, how long it took you to get settled in, how long you stayed there, how big the culture shock was, what you most enjoy(ed) or hate(d) about it, whether you ultimately regret doing it in hindsight etc etc... Just hit me with all your experience.
It could be that you’ve lived abroad for less than a year, or full-blown-emigrated and never returned to your country of origin, it really doesn’t er. Any length of time is fine for the purposes of this thread.*

I am semi-considering moving abroad in the future to do some “things” – I’m kind of on a fact-finding spree at the moment, though, just to see if it really would be worthwhile. Anyhow, I thought I may as well ask you guys, if only for an interesting topic.

SB

*NB: I do actually mean living abroad, not having a holiday for a week...

[CommanderOtto]

wow lol, I have been a foreigner all my life, always moving around. I have so much to say, I don't even know where to begin.

[WD-40]

Same here. where to begin. I'll get back to you likely tomorrow. Sorta tired.

[CommanderOtto]

just wondering... what countries did you have in mind? Would you already have a job at arrival? or are you planning in going as a student?

[Duel of Fates]

Start with the basics of the language. Beer and bathroom. Everything else will fall into place.

[CommanderOtto]

here it goes..

living abroad is one of the best things that could ever happen to you. In your first year everything is an adventure for sure and you will never be the same person again. You know how many people say they come with an open mind after going to europe for one week? That's lies... only people who actually live in another country can say that. So... here's what I have learned from moving around all these years:

Challenges:

1. Visa: The first challenge you will encounter is how to get there in the first place. Most people think that the U.S is one of the hardest countries to get visa... but that is totally false. Even third world countries have lots of barriers to foreigners and the most common problem in like 99% of countries is how to get a permanent visa or a work visa. If you want to live in Brazil for example, you need to have a job and a sponsor to get a work visa (just like in the U.S). That means that a company already hired you from the outside and they will pay you a good salary. The problem is that this rarely happens so you can't find a job without a work visa and you can't have a work visa without a job. It is a vicious circle. You could try finding a job from the outside, but it is not easy. It is possible, but hard to do.

Another way of getting a visa to live in another country is to go there as an international student. If you choose to live in places like Europe, you will need to pay "out of state tuition" like in the U.S and usually these visas only last until you complete your studies. Some countries allow you to stay for a period of time after you graduate so you can find a job but in many cases students don't find a job in time, so they have to go back to their home countries.

In short, the most important thing to stay in a country for a long time is a job that will sponsor you, either after you graduate or if you already graduate. The only companies that will do this are the big ones (fortune 500). Also, the final challenge with finding a job is that you need to speak their language. If you speak the local language and english, then you have very good chances of finding a job... otherwise, good luck.

2. Finding a home: Once you move to another country you need to find a house. This is hard as hell because you don't know the city very well, you don't know where are the nice areas or the most affordable ones with good quality homes. You have to do a lot of research before going to that country and have a general idea of what area of the city you want to live in. After you know this you can go to the country you want to go. Buying home abroad is difficult mainly because of credit. Banks don't want to give you credit if you are on a non-resident visa, so you should consider renting as well.

3. Furniture: You could take your furniture but you have to pay a lot of money to a company to do that for you... there is a lot of paperwork involved in sending a container to another country with all your stuff. Or you could buy furniture but you have to really plan ahead and see how much money you have and this could be expensive. Usually buying stuff there is easier, but will you do with all your new stuff if you plan to go back home?

4. Culture shock: Once you are settled you are excited with all the new things you are seeing. But after the initial excitement passes, you could get depressed easily if you don't find some activities and friends. You are away from home so you can't visit your family... so make sure you get busy learning the new language and getting into foreigner clubs to meet other people like you. If you are looking for a school for kids, note that it will be hard for them since american schools abroad are for the "rich" so it is expensive as hell.

5. Security: If you live in Europe, this will not er... I have the feeling that it is safer there than here. But if you live in places like China, India or Brazil be careful what you say, how you dress and where you go. Don't speak english too loud in the street because in these countries people know you are a foreigner from a mile away and these places are not as safe as the U.S... so if you are not careful you could get kidnapped to get a ransom in dollars. Of course that will only happen if you go to dangerous zones, but if you stick to the upper class areas of the city you will be fine. Just have some common sense and stay away from the "ugly" parts of the city. It's like if you go to some places in Detroit... you feel the area is dangerous, so get out of there. Also be careful with dating women... some are nice but their intentions could be only to take your money since you are a "rich foreigner."

after you have mastered your foreigner skills you will a great time in that country and when you come back you will be a much better person, more acceptable to other cultures, you will speak a new language, you will have the pleasure of learning about new foods and customs. The only thing is that at one point you will want to go back to get some roots because all the moving around will get you tired at some point. For some reason we all need some stability in our lives so you will want to come back at some point.

[Sir Bang]

Thanks Otto!

Yeah, it’ll be as an international student, if at all. I’m aiming for Australia (Perth), so language won’t be an issue; plus I have family out there who have offered me accommodation. I just know that you’ve “done it” all already, insofar as living abroad, so thought I’d ask you about it. You seem pretty happy with the way things have turned out, anyhow. I guess my main concern really is that I would regret doing it lol. But I agree, the potential benefit of studying abroad would be massive.

Though I’d just like to know: How long did it take to “acclimatise” to living in a foreign country, approximately (e.g. mastering the language, feeling at home ect)?

[WD-40]

Most of what Otto said is good stuff. Acclimating to a country and culture may take a few months. Learning the language is a huge step toward that, plus it earns you bonus points with the locals. You'll learn it 10 times faster and more accurately/fluently in country versus in some classroom. I would also look at the Dept of State website and read up about the country, customs and where to go/not to go. In my 'Navy' days, I spent anywhere from 2 to 3 months in a location, with short trips to others during my 6 month deployments. Most of the longer places were not my taste (Japan, Philippines, Okinawa, Saudi Arabia, Adak Alaska), but one place that I found very nice was Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean. It was like a mini Hawaii. All the seafood you could eat. Beautiful, but too far away. Always wanted to hit Australia, so you'll need to keep us posted. There are certainly areas there you want to avoid as well.

Most of my trips with my 'present' employer, have been 1 to 3 days in length at any one location (sometimes just a couple hours to pick up someone and bring him back to the States). If I were to choose one place to live, it would have to be Rome, Italy. It felt like I had lived there my whole life (or a previous one) and I hope to be going back next month for 3 days on business.

Places I've been over the past 10 years alone are: Mexico, Guantanamo (Cuba), Jamaica, Haiti, Dominican Republic, San Juan, St. Thomas, Turks and Caicos, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Panama, Columbia, Trinidad, Guyana (Great Rum made there called 'El Dorado'), Bermuda, Ireland, Scotland, Great Britain, Denmark, Belgium, Iceland, Portugal (Azores), Germany, Italy, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Crete, Cyprus, Israel, Lebanon, Turkey, Hungary, Georgia (old Soviet Republic), Ukraine, Russia, Latvia, Sweden, Afghanistan, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Somalia (a total [poo] hole), Djibouti, Libya, U.A.E., Pakistan, Thailand, Hong Kong, Japan, Okinawa, South Korea, Hawaii....

Basically, most of Europe is pretty good (Northern Latitudes have a lot of cloudy/wet weather), and all the [poo] -stans in the Middle East are total crap holes swimming in Muslims. Only go to the Middle East to live if you have a death wish and/or want to get into a fight. But like I said, Rome, Italy is two thumbs up. Not cheap, but very beautiful. Good luck!

[CommanderOtto]

Thanks Otto!

Yeah, it’ll be as an international student, if at all. I’m aiming for Australia (Perth), so language won’t be an issue; plus I have family out there who have offered me accommodation. I just know that you’ve “done it” all already, insofar as living abroad, so thought I’d ask you about it. You seem pretty happy with the way things have turned out, anyhow. I guess my main concern really is that I would regret doing it lol. But I agree, the potential benefit of studying abroad would be massive.

Though I’d just like to know: How long did it take to “acclimatise” to living in a foreign country, approximately (e.g. mastering the language, feeling at home ect)?

your welcome!

from the list of first world countries, Australia is probably one of the best choices for international students. It is clean, safe, beautiful and it is a modern immigrant country... so if you decide to live there after your studies, getting a permanent visa would be slightly easier. You would probably get used to it very quick since their culture is not much different from the american one. It is "western culture" , even if it is located in the far east. When you move to a country similar to yours, I would say you will only feel really comfortable and settled after 2 years (but that is just me... other people get used to places a lot faster, or it could take you a longer time). If you move to a country that speaks a completely different language than yours, then it could take you minimum 5 years to feel at home. I'm not talking about getting used to a routine... but actually feeling at home, like if it was a second country to you.

When I arrive in a new places I try to learn what the locals do, eat and think. For example, I know american culture very well, but I had never been to a baseball game here... so i went to a game, bought a hotdog with a blue moon beer and talked to some friends. By going to the game I experienced real american culture... I even found out that people like to sing a song called "take me out to the ballgame".

Just by learning that little detail of american culture (like that song), I was able to feel more at home. It is hard to explain, but those little things that represent a culture are like treasures, and once you discover them, they become part of that local knowledge that helps you adapt and feel at home, like if you are slowly becoming a local yourself.

but whatever you do, don't choose England... I am sure it is very cold. If you like spanish, Spain is a good place to be an international student as well. Lots of european students from all over the EU thanks to the Erasmus program, so you learn about spain, but you are also in contact with all different cultures. If you stick to the idea of Australia though... that is a very good choice, and your main expense (housing) is solved since you already have family there.

[WD-40]

I disagree completely that it would take 5 years minimum to feel at home. Depends on the person. Like I said, I felt 'at home' the moment I stepped off the plane in Rome even though I didn't know Italian. I coulda learned it inside 6 months if I had to, but in other countries, it would be tougher. A place in Europe might take me a few months to feel comfortably at home, But I am 50 years old, been to so many places, spread 'my wings' becoming a Pilot for the Navy fresh out of college seeing the world that way. In Australia, you are a welcomed American (a 'Yank'). You could acclimate quickly as a co worker of mine did and married an Aussie wife.

Bottom line, it depends on the individual. You picked a great location, especially since Australia and New Zealand are sought after for Citizenship as Otto alluded to. He knows student stuff better than I. But as a 50 year old, if the World [poo] were to hit the fan, Australia and New Zealand would be my first 2 choices to live. Nobody wants to blow those countries up!