Government Shutdown

[(SWGO)Kren]

Not experiencing this myself given I live in the UK it is strange to see how a percentage of government services can be shut down because there is a disagreement over a policy. If the care package turns out to be a black-hold then one party will indicate they are in the right and vice versa.

Our country as you know is not as large as the US or have the same amount of debts etc but so far healthcare has been successful for my parents, me and my own family. It can work but obviously scales of economies are no doubt a factor in getting it to work correctly.

As Duel indicate when the next contentious policy is passed more services could be impacted due to government shutdowns. As the economy expands and as new and bigger projects are implemented the scale of impact will increase and more people will feel this. If the debt ceiling is factored into all of this then it is not a happy picture for the general population in future years whenever a gridlock of this nature does arise. Could the impact of non negotiation cause a new and deeper recession in the US or the next time this arises and more importantly how can an impasse be avoided?

Given the democratic nature of the US, the vast ideological chasms between the warring parties and the fall-out from this it is difficult to understand how the mechanics of the constitution you guys hold so dear can overcome all of this and prevent it from repeating itself in the future?

Kren

[CommanderOtto]

I don't think so. It will only get worse in the future as extremists in the left and the right continue to destroy the balance of politics in the U.S. Both parties have them, and it will continue to cause problems. I could be wrong, but that's how it seems right now.

[WD-40]

Lol, why negotiate with people whose idea of negotiation is to use a government shut down to push through two years of their failed agenda. Also, just because the stock market tanks on the day of a speech does not prove causality. More than likely the fears over a default along with tanking retail stocks.

First off, It's hard to get common sense legislation thru, when you're dealing with a Law-breaking, Narcisstic and hypocritical Prez who honestly does not know what he is doing, let alone know right from wrong. He needs to take lessons from Clinton, Reagan, FDR and Lyndon Johnson on what it means to Negotiate...to compromise. They all came out smelling like roses because they not only 'knew' this fact, but they all also had real experience in Government as Governors or Senate leaders. What did Obama have before becoming prez? Less than 2 years as a Senator (then on the Campaign trail) and wrote 2 books about how great he thinks he is. People were enamored and mesmerized by his oratory skill reading teleprompters. He still gives speeches to shore up is imperfections and BS the populace. Many are finally seeing thru it all. Even the Liberal Press cannot hide his stupidity and divisiveness over the years. They are tiring of him and it is showing in their attacks on him. He has lied and mislead the people, the press and the world. He is weak at home and on the world stage, and made America into a joke. He has deliberately not funded partial legislation for military vets and their families, and closed national Monuments (at a cost) that are 'FREE' to see by visitors...all just to [m'kay] with the people and impose needless inconvenience and pain. All because he lives in this imaginary world he created in his mind where he thinks everyone, everywhere, should bow to his grand designs and obey his word. He's a fool. And those that continue to follow him are fools. Mitt Romney predicted what would happen back in Nov 2012, exactly what we are seeing today if Obama were re-elected.

ROMNEY: “You know that if the president were to be elected, he would still be unable to work with members of Congress,” Romney said during a Colorado campaign stop in November 2012.

“He’s ignored them, he’s attacked them, he’s blamed them. And of course the debt ceiling is going to come up again, and then there’d be a threat of shutdown or default. And that of course chills the economy, puts more people out of work.”
(check it out...It's all over the web)
You are also forgetting the fact that the Senate has not passed a budget in five years. The House has passed annual budgets as required, but Senate Majority Leader (presidential Lap Dog) Harry Reid will not permit the House and Senate to ever negotiate and pass an annual budget. By continuing to play the continuing resolution game, Reid knows he can force issues when each continuing resolution is about to expire and he knows the media will help him blame it on the Republicans or the tea party.

So if anyone wants to pass 'blame'...Blame the Damn President and the Senate Democrats for being the Divisive Partisan Jackoffs that they are!

[Duel of Fates]

Given the democratic nature of the US, the vast ideological chasms between the warring parties and the fall-out from this it is difficult to understand how the mechanics of the constitution you guys hold so dear can overcome all of this and prevent it from repeating itself in the future?

Kren

Unfortunately, there are many who have no regard for the Constitution anymore. They see it as an impediment to their idea of a "progressive" utopia. For over a hundred years, it has been under attack. Like Obama pointed out in his bid for the White House, the Constitution is a document of "negative" liberties. It limits the government's power over it's citizens by granting certain inalienable rights to the people, NOT to the government.

[(=DK=)Samonuh]

Ted Nugent adopted an under-aged girl just so he could have sexual relations with her, so yes, I'm going to call him a pedophile.

SHOW ME PROOF!

Since there's really not one source for this, here's a variety of sources for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ted+Nugent+and+Pele

[Duel of Fates]

Ted Nugent adopted an under-aged girl just so he could have sexual relations with her, so yes, I'm going to call him a pedophile.

SHOW ME PROOF!

Since there's really not one source for this, here's a variety of sources for you:

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Ted+Nugent+and+Pele

I actually found more sites than that when I researched this. But all were from left leaning bloggers and podcasters that were upset because Nugent was backing Romney during the last presidential election. They offer no proof, took his words out of context, edited to make their point, and smeared his name in the hopes of turning undecided, ill informed voters from voting for Romney.

Was he charged with a crime? If he really was a pedophile, don't you think it would be an easy call for some up and coming DA to try to pin that on him, take him to court, to see justice done? No indictments were made. No conviction was made. And because there were unsubstantiated allegations, a person is now considered to be a pedophile?

Thought you were better than that Samo. Just regurgitating what you read on the internet is the pinnacle of hypocrisy.

I am done with this side thread. Back to the supposed shutdown.

[Mandalore]

Of course Obamacare is a pyramid scheme. Every enactment of any type of social security/healthcare provided by a government that isn't privatized is a pyramid scheme.Hell, the entire idea of herd mentality when it comes to age relations is a pyramid scheme. The young always support the old. Now this isn't to say that I support the ACA, but to use that as an argument is rather silly. Personally I would have rather seen an overhaul of Medicaid/Medicare and seen some of the ACA incorporated into them rather than as an entire new agency, basically.

Although I suppose you could use that argument if you were supporting the removal of medicair and other social programs that work on the exact same premise. Social Security does work in this way also if you think about it. This is because the money you put into SS when you're in your 20s depreciates greatly by the time you're old enough to retire and probably doesn't care 40% of the buying power it used to. All good arguments for larger levels of immigration imo.

[Duel of Fates]

You know? I remember Obama making the statement that Obama Care "will not add one dime to the deficit". So what is the problem?

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

Any president who betrays our constitution by making congress and himself exempt from the same laws that we, the people, have to follow, should know the respect of the title is going to decay. All the while babies are losing their WIC benefits...

This is another piece of GOP propaganda. Congress is not exempt from the effects of the Affordable Care Act. http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/fixgov/p ... orce-hudak

Obama gave yet another useless, devisive speech...Stock Market tanks. Seems every time he opens his mouth...Maybe if he tried 'negotiating' instead of giving speeches. Hmmmm....

Logical Fallacy. Correlation does not imply causation. Secondly, speaking to the American people - including them in the workings of government (or at least giving them summaries of the goings-on of Congress) is indicative of transparency. Of course bias factors in - each human has an opinion, and the president can't be expected to divorce his from the situation, especially since it involves him directly.

every time Obama opens his mouth, he ends up putting his foot in it.

Whether or not you agree with the President's politics, he is a fantastic speaker.

the move of the republican party to attack the main policy that has marked Obama's presidency is unrealistic. If they want to attack obama on something else, great, but do they really think Obama is going to negotiate on practically the only thing he fought for during his first 4 years of presidency? If Obamacare is good or bad, that's another er, but people (regardless of party) have to show some respect to the President. If Obamacare passed, it passed and forcing a shutdown on his throat to get rid of Obamacare is simply disrespectful to to him and to all the voters that supported him (which are the majority). If they want to remove obamacare, they have to find another way. I am not supporting democrats or republicans... but we have to be realistic. He's not going to negotiate on the only thing he was "won" big (politically speaking) during these 4 years.

1) Although I disagree with the method Republicans have employed to rid the country of Health Care Reform, it is historically traditional. Congress has attempted to defund government policy several times in the past. The Dems tried to defund the Iraqi War a few years ago.
2) Established law should not be regarded as all-mighty just because it has managed to pass through our system. The Fugitive Slave Act is an example of laws passed and validated by the Supreme Court - we still agree it is wrong. There was a lovely segment on NPR this morning in which a guest basically stated that the seemingly stupid moves by one party to block policy they disagree with is just a part of our governmental setup.

OK, lets look at this from another angle.

10 or so years from now, when Obama Care is up and running, and everyone "loves" it, what do you think will happen the next time there is gridlock and a government shutdown occurs. Your government healthcare is cut and people that were relying on it to get the medical care they need will not be able to get it because it will be shut down. Do you really want to give the government that kind of control over it's citizens? It won't be just national parks and a few offices closed. It will be hospitals, medical centers, and ERs being shut down for political leverage. You think it is bad now? Wait until you cannot get the treatments you need because politicians are bickering over whatever happens to be the flavor of the month.

As for this particular "shutdown", it really isn't a shutdown. 87% of the government is still up and running, getting funding. That is still trillions of dollars still being spent. Only 13% of the government is shutdown. And Obama and his cronies are making sure it hurts the people as much as possible to blame it on the Republicans. No one is on the high ground here, both parties are so polarized.

It is kind of funny how they blame each other for playing politics. Since they are in the business of politics. It is kind of like the morons on HA or JBA calling each other noobs. It is pointless. Isn't politics a prime requisite for being a politician?

This is the first time I can recall that a president has refused to even discuss anything with the opposing parties. I cannot stand Clinton, but at least he realized that he needed to work with Republicans during the last shutdown of '95.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/10/08/politics/shutdown-showdown/index.html

You know? I remember Obama making the statement that Obama Care "will not add one dime to the deficit". So what is the problem?

http://www.econlib.org/library/Topics/HighSchool/BudgetDeficitsandPublicDebt.html

[WD-40]

'Lying' is NOT 'transparency' Pepsi! And I'm not denying Obama is good at 'reading a speech'. But we need Leadership, not more speeches!