Government Shutdown

[[NH]Shadow]

The easiest and quickest way we can trim some fat is STOP paying so much in foreign aid. I agree that things like Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and the military are off-limits.

Another way to trim a LOT of fat is for those who are on Welfare to require them to do community service work. Instead of paying money on cleanup crews for parks, streets, etc. we can have those who need help to do something for the help. I'm not talking about moms on wic doing stuff like this, cause they need to be feeding their kids, but If both parents are unemployed there is no reason Daddy can't be doing community service...

well said nite...agree completely.

[THEWULFMAN]

I'm a huge military nut and defense advocate and believe our military could trim out roughly 200 billion and we'd still have the most capable military of any nation several times over.

I'm for a "keep it simple stupid (K.I.S.S.)" approach to the military. Reduce funding to increasingly expensive stealth projects, increase funding to 4 and 4.5 gen aircraft, etc.

Sadly that isn't going to happen.

Currently we spend 10x more than the nation with the 2nd largest military budget, last I checked anyway.

[Hobo]

I'm a huge military nut and defense advocate and believe our military could trim out roughly 200 billion and we'd still have the most capable military of any nation several times over.

I'm for a "keep it simple stupid (K.I.S.S.)" approach to the military. Reduce funding to increasingly expensive stealth projects, increase funding to 4 and 4.5 gen aircraft, etc.

Sadly that isn't going to happen.

Currently we spend 10x more than the nation with the 2nd largest military budget, last I checked anyway.

Not to play the devils advocate, but isn't the only reason we keep spending money on military is to keep up GDP?

Ex. congress wants more tanks, but the military generals don't. congress goes ahead with the plan to keep tank manufacturers from going out of business.

[THEWULFMAN]

I've heard that argument a lot, Hobo.

The problem is there isn't really a way to gain back money spent on making more Abrams for example (though we stopped making them for now, thank [m'kay]. We have way more than we need). We could export more, but we don't.

Most of my problems lie in R&D not production. If we want to keep making F-15s and F/A-18's I'm all for that, but not spending billions upon billions on the 22 and 35. You know they screwed up the development of the F-35? The version for the navy doesn't even work properly, it can't land on carriers conventionally because its tail hook is in the wrong spot. So we'd have to order new R&D and fix it, or use the ones we have and force them to VTOL only. Money completely wasted because the engineers didn't check if the tail hook was in the right location.

Military goods hardly counts as the GDP because of how we do things. It's money down the drain with no returns most of the time. Yes it gives people jobs, but ugh, it's not worth it a lot of the time. Again, not really against production, but mostly against new R&D because of the insane costs.

It's like if a car company develops and produces a new brand of SUV, only let's their employees use them for vacation and sell very few if any of them. Sure it gives people jobs to make the cars, but then you don't gain the money back you spent on the research and production.

The world is very different from what it was half a century ago. Allies prefer to make their own products a lot of the time.

[Mandalore]

1. Foreign Aid is an incredibly small part of our budget...maybe 3%? Literally a drop in the bucket. Our entire system needs to be re-hauled. Our current bureaucratic concepts were born roughly eight decades go. It wasn't designed for this stress load. The federal system has grown bloated. Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing the idea of the states just being canned, or at the very least condensed. Perhaps into about 8-9 regions. Keeping a total of 100 senators though, since bicameral legislative systems don't seem to be turning out too bad.

And the defense industry is tiny when compared to just about every single other industry there is. Only 320 billion in 2010 in sales revenue. Very miniscule in terms of GDP. And the US still outspends every single country combined on the face of the Earth when it comes to defense. Time to realize that strategy is not a long term viable one.

[Yanoda]

[11_Panama_]

That's insane. That can't be legal. Thanks Yanny.

[Yanoda]

That's insane. That can't be legal. Thanks Yanny.

I doubt it is either. I hope this (the resolution 368) will be removed soon, so this can't be used again (from either party)... though that can be wishful thinking.

[FaiL.?]

I'm a huge military nut and defense advocate and believe our military could trim out roughly 200 billion and we'd still have the most capable military of any nation several times over.

I'm for a "keep it simple stupid (K.I.S.S.)" approach to the military. Reduce funding to increasingly expensive stealth projects, increase funding to 4 and 4.5 gen aircraft, etc.

Sadly that isn't going to happen.

Currently we spend 10x more than the nation with the 2nd largest military budget, last I checked anyway.

Just to contribute a little bit, I think that I'll add a bit to the conversation, with some food for thought. Thank you for bringing this aspect up Wulfi, and good to see ya man. Well I learnt in Civics a couple years ago that on Average the U.S.A spends about $399 billion a year on defense. The next 20 largest/most populated countries after spend less on defense, combined, about 396 billion. Little scary right? That we've gotten so paranoid over the years? Anyone wanna answer the question here of why?

[THEWULFMAN]

Just to contribute a little bit, I think that I'll add a bit to the conversation, with some food for thought. Thank you for bringing this aspect up Wulfi, and good to see ya man. Well I learnt in Civics a couple years ago that on Average the U.S.A spends about $399 billion a year on defense. The next 20 largest/most populated countries after spend less on defense, combined, about 396 billion. Little scary right? That we've gotten so paranoid over the years? Anyone wanna answer the question here of why?

On average. I'd like to know on average of what? Overall? The average amount the US has ever spent on our defense since we started to provide for the common defense? I'd really like to know.

I don't even know if the average mat.ters. I'll tell you what our defense budget is now, 680+ billion.



As for why we spend so much now? I don't even know where to start. Someone better than me should explain that.