Obamacare

[CommanderOtto]

yes, there are tons of different hospitals providing different services... but one or two hospitals with aggressive pricing don't change the overall price curve of healthcare through the years. It's similar to oil companies...there are many different companies out there, but oil prices keep going on. Just because there are many providing the service does not mean there is actually "competition". And as I said before, healthcare is unique, because life is actually priceless so there is no limit to the amount that can be charged.

ugh... how I hate those eat this and never diet again commercials...

Also, as I pointed out before, free market rules don't apply to everything as the majority of people think. It depends on the market and the product... sometimes free market works with some things, sometimes it doesn't. And note, if i'm correct, the u.s has more hospital beds than what it really needs, which means that there are so many hospitals, there should be competition, but that's not the case because prices just continue to skyrocket.... which again demonstrates how unique the healthcare market is in comparison to other services.

[Col. Hstar]

Exactly. Well said. I would also like to point out that we had the best healthcare in the world. People flew from their socialized medical healthcare countries to our country to obtain the best doctors, the best medicine. They sure as hell didn't travel to the old Soviet Union for excellent medical needs.

Isn't that because most doctors (especially the good ones) come to the US because they can make more money. Which is why health care is so expensive here?

[Duel of Fates]

All of you assume that those receiving aid are not in need, or, worse, do not deserve the help they are entitled to. Veterans injured while fighting for American freedom, disabled individuals with no hope of work, /children/ with parents who cannot/will not work but should starve according to you are all very much indicative of the need for a societal safety net. Is there waste in the system? Yes, but this is preferable to a society where those who cannot care for themselves are left to die in the streets.

Who here is advocating that we let people die in the streets? No one has said that, intimated that, nor alluded to that. Quit trying to use emotional arguments to justify ideological bias. Wasting billions of dollars on fraud and waste is a completely illogical solution. Let's look towards fixing the problems instead of creating more laws, programs and institutions that invite even more fraud and abuse. If you can cut down on the waste and fraud, there would be more money that can go to people who really, really need it.

[Duel of Fates]

Exactly. Well said. I would also like to point out that we had the best healthcare in the world. People flew from their socialized medical healthcare countries to our country to obtain the best doctors, the best medicine. They sure as hell didn't travel to the old Soviet Union for excellent medical needs.

Isn't that because most doctors (especially the good ones) come to the US because they can make more money. Which is why health care is so expensive here?

Healthcare is expensive for many reasons. Malpractice insurance and medical school costs are just a couple of reasons that have nothing to do with doctors from other countries coming here to practice medicine.

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

Exactly. Well said. I would also like to point out that we had the best healthcare in the world. People flew from their socialized medical healthcare countries to our country to obtain the best doctors, the best medicine. They sure as hell didn't travel to the old Soviet Union for excellent medical needs.

Isn't that because most doctors (especially the good ones) come to the US because they can make more money. Which is why health care is so expensive here?

Healthcare is expensive for many reasons. Malpractice insurance and medical school costs are just a couple of reasons that have nothing to do with doctors from other countries coming here to practice medicine.

....lack of competition across state lines.

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

Doctors rarely decide what they charge anymore - if their practice decides to accept Medicare and/or Medicaid, their rates are practically set by the Federal Government. Even when the private insurance companies are allowed free reign, prices go /up/ not down.

I hear this argument constantly from an incalculably high number of uninformed people:

If you take the government out of Health Insurance and let the market do as it will, rates and deductibles will decrease over time.

The problem is, health insurance companies have very little incentive to compete with one another - they may even collude to set high prices. One doctor may charge his patient significantly less than another for an MRI or CT, but another doctor's office agrees to give one Health Insurance company near exclusivity - guess what? All consumers with health care plans under that company will be forced to go to that doctor, or the insurance company will refuse to pay. You may say this is illegal, and it probably is - but it is still done because the people getting screwed don't have the money or the energy to hire lawyers and fight 8-10 year long court battles with a billion dollar company about the 3000 dollar deductible they were forced to pay out of pocket for treatment at /this/ practice rather than another, the one that the HI company would have preferred. These corporate monstrosities get away with quite a bit... AND, because the initial doctor is now LOSING patients, he is going to jack up his prices to cut his losses, who knows? He may even be forced to sign a similar agreement with another Health Care giant.


On another note, if any Congressmen can engineer a plan to remove the majority of waste in the system without hurting the millions of people who are in desperate need of aid, I am perfectly willing to listen. However, this hasn't been done. If any of you actually /wanted/ to cut spending, I'd have thought you would advocate cutting the Defense-Spending budget, or attempting to eliminate the Military-Industrial Complex (what President Eisenhower warned us about) that forces the military to purchase tens of billions of dollars in equipment we don't need by ramming bills through corrupt Congressmen who are each desperate for the next "donation" to his/her campaign.

[Bryant]

On another note, if any Congressmen can engineer a plan to remove the majority of waste in the system without hurting the millions of people who are in desperate need of aid, I am perfectly willing to listen. However, this hasn't been done. If any of you actually /wanted/ to cut spending, I'd have thought you would advocate cutting the Defense-Spending budget, or attempting to eliminate the Military-Industrial Complex (what President Eisenhower warned us about) that forces the military to purchase tens of billions of dollars in equipment we don't need by ramming bills through corrupt Congressmen who are each desperate for the next "donation" to his/her campaign.

How about we start simple then, and just ask them to be included in their own plan?

[Duel of Fates]

New government conversion: 50,000 = millions.

[11_Panama_]

New government conversion: 50,000 = millions.

Government must of been an alumni of the public school system.

[[NH]Shadow]

New government conversion: 50,000 = millions.

Government must of been an alumni of the public school system.