Obamacare

[MATTHEW'S_DAD]

^ And the reason to keep the government out of healthcare and health insurance is precisely in your post.

Crap, 1st post on a new page makes my up arrow look silly.

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

^ And the reason to keep the government out of healthcare and health insurance is precisely in your post.

No, it isn't. My post highlights the problems in governmental policy-making today - it suggests that we need serious campaign finance reform and a more informed populace.

[Duel of Fates]

It is exactly the reason why government should not be running healthcare.

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

It is exactly the reason why government should not be running healthcare.

What would you propose we do to ensure that all Americans have access to quality care? If you have managed to develop successful alternatives to Medicaid and Medicare, I am perfectly willing to listen. In the meantime, however, we can't trust private companies to care for the poor or provide affordable plans that cover essential conditions.

[Duel of Fates]

I have said it many times. Why you do not get it is beyond me?
Open the borders and restrictions that inhibit a free market insurance. Allow the competition of the insurance companies to drive the costs down. Limit the amounts awarded in malpractice lawsuits, reducing the cost of the physicians and the hospitals, also allowing for the reduction of medical bills. Take out the corruption inherited in the Medicare and Medicaid welfare systems so they run cleaner and more efficiently. Quit throwing tons of money at waste, just so the few who were supposed to get some, get some. Have the FDA crack down on major drug companies that falsify testing results just so they can line their pockets by selling bad drugs, which cause more problems for patients.

For those that cannot obtain healthcare on their own (which was around 15%) can sign up for government healthcare and pay into a system where you have personalized medical insurance accounts. It would be a voluntary healthcare system, and you can opt out of it at any time, or never use it if you feel you do not need it.

See, if you do not pay into the system, the insurance is not there for you. That is how it works. You cannot get something for nothing.

Healthcare is not a Right. That is your problem.

(These are just a few things that come to the top of my mind. I am sure I am missing some key things, but it boils down to common sense and getting the corruption out of the system. You do not need to dictate to the citizens, what insurance they "need" and at what price the government decides is fair. Again, it is unconstitutional for any government to force someone to buy a product, and force a company to sell a product. That is fascism. It didn't work for the Nazi's, and it won't work here.)

I have a question or two for you. Progressive? What are you trying to Progress to? What is it you see for the future of America in say 20 years, 50 years, and 100 years? I highly doubt it will be anything resembling the America that had the greatest military, the greatest economy, the best healthcare, and the richest free capitalism in the world.

Do me a favor, show me the vet who is denied treatment for injuries received while in service to this country. (careful young man, there's a trap in this question)

Oh, and why don't you answer MD on that one?

[(SWGO)DesertEagle]

+.9% Increase in Medicare Tax Rate (plus next item…)
3.8% New Tax on unearned income for high-income taxpayers= $210.2 billion ($200,000 for individual and $250,000 for joint filers)
New Annual Fee on health insurance providers = $60 billion (For calculation - Sec 9010 (b) of the PPACA.)[1]
40% New Tax on health insurance policies which cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family, per year = $32 billion (inland tax as opposed to an importation tax)
New Annual Fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs = $27 billion (For calculation - Sec 9008 (b) of the PPACA)[2]
2.3% New Tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices = $20 billion
+2.5% Increase (7.5% to 10%) in the Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction = $15.2 billion
Limit annual contributions to $2,500 on flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans (plans that allow employees to choose between different types of benefits) = $13 billion
All other revenue sources = $14.9 billion
10% New Tax imposed on each individual for whom “indoor tanning services” are performed.
3.8% New Tax on investment income. Includes: gross income from interest, dividends, royalties, rents, and net capital gains. Investment income does not include interest on tax-exempt bonds, veterans’ benefits, excluded gain from the sale of a principle residence, distributions from retirement plans, or amounts subject to self-employment taxes. (The lesser of net investment income or the excess of modified Adjusted Gross Income over a the dollar amount at which the highest income tax bracket, typically $250,000 for married filing jointly and $200,000 filing as an individual).

- http://www.alignamerica.com/node/62
[/color]

All I see is tax tax tax tax, so you just proved my point. Also, what's up with taxing medical device manufacters and drug importers? So lets make healthcare more affordable by taxing healthcare products and making them more expensive. Ironic. Oh, and let's tax investment income so people who invest in businesses will have less to invest. Let's see, what does that money go into? Oh yeah, paying workers. Ooh, another one, a tax on rents, so now renting is going to be more expensive (so these poorer workers are going to have even less of their reduced wages to spend on things like food.

Taxing this way doesn't work because it is just passed along to the consumer. All of these taxes directly or directly come out of our pockets.

Guess what? We pay either way. If we pay our own way, we obviously dish it out directly. Under Obamacare, we still pay, we just way thru taxes (+ waste + corruption + red tape). Therefore, it is actually less efficient.

It is exactly the reason why government should not be running healthcare.

What would you propose we do to ensure that all Americans have access to quality care? If you have managed to develop successful alternatives to Medicaid and Medicare, I am perfectly willing to listen. In the meantime, however, we can't trust private companies to care for the poor or provide affordable plans that cover essential conditions.

So we can trust the government to do better? Tell me, what do you think of their track record with Medicare/Medicaid?
Yes, healthcare is a mess, but we don't need the government getting into it because they ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS mess things up even worse.

Also, what is up with this entitlement mentality? So I am OWED healthcare? I DESERVE it? Where does it say that in the constitution? I understand you want to help the poor, but the solution is not to make the majority of the population poor and put them all on Medicare.

Yes healthcare is important. No, it is not the most important employee benefit or the most important thing in your life. That is an outright lie designed by liberals who have been pushing for socialized medicine for the last hundred years.

I think I agree with Rush's theory that this is meant to blow up badly and drive the insurance companies out of the market so the only option left is what the government provides.

And buddy, you don't want it. I have dealt with Medi-Cal (california's medical insurance for the poor) for a family member and it is the biggest stinking mess ever. They take forever to pay anything and its almost impossible to talk to anyone (they actively try to avoid any communication because they are so overloaded). At least with a private insurance company I can talk to someone and see a contract and know what I am promised. Even Medicare is really confusing.

I think idea of an insurance exchange is not a bad one in and of itself, but it needs to be privately run, not by the government.

Liberals think that the government needs to run everything. The problem is that people run the government and you are just having fewer people run things and that increases the chances of messes.

[Duel of Fates]

Hoop de doo?

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

What would you propose we do to ensure that all Americans have access to quality care? If you have managed to develop successful alternatives to Medicaid and Medicare, I am perfectly willing to listen. In the meantime, however, we can't trust private companies to care for the poor or provide affordable plans that cover essential conditions.

These are the most retarded statements posted so far.

First, I propose that all Americans HAVE access to quality care. Like everything else of quality, you are expected to pay for it. Not paying for it is called stealing. Forcing someone else pay for it is called robbery. Having someone else pay for it willingly is called charity. Having the government pay for it is called socialism. Getting it for free is called La La Land.

Second, covering the poor is EXACTLY what Medicare and Medicaid was created for. Nearly 50 years ago some liberal idiot pushed through a health care program to expand Social Security that all Americans would be required to pay into to provide basic quality health care for the poor and elderly. So the solution is to just make it bigger? Jesus Christ, someone spot the white elephant in the room! Why more folks can't see that this experiment has been tried before and failed, I can't understand.

Finally, you seem to think it would be better to trust politicians and bureaucrats to handle large amounts of money honestly, openly and with the goal of helping the disenfranchised? (disenfranchised = no vote)

What you want is free health care cause it's difficult to afford. Instead of making it easier to give to charities that provide free health care or make it easier for those charities to exist and flourish, you'd rather force the money out of peoples pockets and spend it the way you think is best.

That's larceny and hubris.

[CommanderOtto]

+.9% Increase in Medicare Tax Rate (plus next item…)
3.8% New Tax on unearned income for high-income taxpayers= $210.2 billion ($200,000 for individual and $250,000 for joint filers)
New Annual Fee on health insurance providers = $60 billion (For calculation - Sec 9010 (b) of the PPACA.)[1]
40% New Tax on health insurance policies which cost more than $10,200 for an individual or $27,500 for a family, per year = $32 billion (inland tax as opposed to an importation tax)
New Annual Fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs = $27 billion (For calculation - Sec 9008 (b) of the PPACA)[2]
2.3% New Tax on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices = $20 billion
+2.5% Increase (7.5% to 10%) in the Adjusted Gross Income floor on medical expenses deduction = $15.2 billion
Limit annual contributions to $2,500 on flexible spending arrangements in cafeteria plans (plans that allow employees to choose between different types of benefits) = $13 billion
All other revenue sources = $14.9 billion
10% New Tax imposed on each individual for whom “indoor tanning services” are performed.
3.8% New Tax on investment income. Includes: gross income from interest, dividends, royalties, rents, and net capital gains. Investment income does not include interest on tax-exempt bonds, veterans’ benefits, excluded gain from the sale of a principle residence, distributions from retirement plans, or amounts subject to self-employment taxes. (The lesser of net investment income or the excess of modified Adjusted Gross Income over a the dollar amount at which the highest income tax bracket, typically $250,000 for married filing jointly and $200,000 filing as an individual).

- http://www.alignamerica.com/node/62
[/color]

All I see is tax tax tax tax, so you just proved my point. Also, what's up with taxing medical device manufacters and drug importers? So lets make healthcare more affordable by taxing healthcare products and making them more expensive. Ironic. Oh, and let's tax investment income so people who invest in businesses will have less to invest. Let's see, what does that money go into? Oh yeah, paying workers. Ooh, another one, a tax on rents, so now renting is going to be more expensive (so these poorer workers are going to have even less of their reduced wages to spend on things like food.

Taxing this way doesn't work because it is just passed along to the consumer. All of these taxes directly or directly come out of our pockets.

the obamacare system might be crap, but the taxing of these devices doesn't even tickle the companies that produce them. The problem with healthcare is that the profit margin is so huge in comparison to everything else, it is ridiculous. The same devices are way less expensive in other countries. At least now the government will get some cash out of it. Besides, it takes time for the companies to pass the tax to the consumer. While they are deciding how to pass the cost to us, the government gets some bucks. Of course, it will balance out sometime, but the hate towards the taxing of those devices is too exaggerated by politicians.

[Hobo]

La La Land