Evolution & Creationism Debate at Museum

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

I accept that I'm unable to sway either of your beliefs, and I don't strive to - but I will respond just once more to Desert Eagle: Every argument you've made in support of the notion that the Bible is an infallible text, that the Earth is old, that Noah's flood transpired the way it is recounted in your Holy Book is flawed. Essentially, you bridge the gaps in evidence with faith, twisting things out of context and inventing the most irrational explanations. I'll admit that I'm anything but an expert in Evolutionary Theory, so I'm not prepared to go on arguing each one of your points without conducting some research, but I still maintain that, at its very core, your positions are not in line with mine, nor will they ever be, I suspect. I will never view Creationist contentions as viable, and I doubt you will ever embrace Evolution as the fact it is. I can't disprove the idea that God created the universe, but I can disprove the idea that the Bible is infallible - multiple contradictions exist when the text attempts to explain the nature of God: God cannot be both omnipotent and immortal, God cannot be omniscient and emotional, God cannot be all-loving and damn unbelievers.

To Homestar, I've nothing to say but that our views differ. I have no resentment towards Christians, in fact, I have the utmost respect for those who use their faith for good. I cannot argue with you, everything I need to say has been said, let's leave each other in peace?

[haasd0gg]

Your silly arguments about life... I figured it all out after I watched Donnie Darko

[(SWGO)DesertEagle]

I accept that I'm unable to sway either of your beliefs, and I don't strive to - but I will respond just once more to Desert Eagle: Every argument you've made in support of the notion that the Bible is an infallible text, that the Earth is old, that Noah's flood transpired the way it is recounted in your Holy Book is flawed. Essentially, you bridge the gaps in evidence with faith, twisting things out of context and inventing the most irrational explanations. I'll admit that I'm anything but an expert in Evolutionary Theory, so I'm not prepared to go on arguing each one of your points without conducting some research, but I still maintain that, at its very core, your positions are not in line with mine, nor will they ever be, I suspect. I will never view Creationist contentions as viable, and I doubt you will ever embrace Evolution as the fact it is. I can't disprove the idea that God created the universe, but I can disprove the idea that the Bible is infallible - multiple contradictions exist when the text attempts to explain the nature of God: God cannot be both omnipotent and immortal, God cannot be omniscient and emotional, God cannot be all-loving and damn unbelievers.

To Homestar, I've nothing to say but that our views differ. I have no resentment towards Christians, in fact, I have the utmost respect for those who use their faith for good. I cannot argue with you, everything I need to say has been said, let's leave each other in peace?

There is no contradiction in God being omniscient, immortal, omnipotent, etc. Matter of fact, He MUST be all these things or He is not God.

Yes, God can be all loving and still send unbelievers to hell because He is holy. He gave us a choice, we chose to sin, so we all deserve Hell. However, He chose to save some of us, and somehow it is the ones who accept this (this is a mystery that no one can explain). Those who reject him have made their choice that they do not want to be with Him. God is love, love is not God. You cannot make the elements of God conflict with each other, they all must work together. Therefore, He is loving and merciful enough to offer salvation but because he is holy and just, he will punish those who do not accept what He offers. You cannot separate the elements of God, they all work together.

This is a sticking point for many people (Including Darwin), namely, that many people are going to Hell. However, realize that said people have made that decision conciously (I of course can't explain what happens if someone never has a chance, I tend to feel that everyone gets a chance). Failure to accept Christ is a decision to damn the soul. That's the way it is. We humans tend to have a false sense of being owed something, as if God owes us a chance to be saved. We all blew it (and continue to blow it), and we all deserve Hell.

It feels unfair, but it really isn't. Those who don't wish to accept salvation have made their decision, no one can change that. God could force them, but he has chosen to give us free will and let us make our own decisions.

Evolution is only a fact for those who accept the atheistic a priori assumptions. You are going from the perspective of one who does not believe in God so of course you will reject the book He wrote through human means (because it cannot make sense otherwise). The Bible is meaningless without God and God is undefined to us without the Bible. Without a prior belief in God, the whole 'I believe in God because of the Bible and the Bible because of God' turns into circular reasoning.

Accepting the Bible as a harmonious whole requires a belief in a single overarching Author, otherwise it is meaningless.

Your views are completely natural and consistent, and it is not for me to force my views (which I believe are also natural and consistent) upon you. That is your own business.

Creationism is a "fact" to those who believe it, I guess.

"Fact" is a really bad word to use in science and especially in philosophy, but it tends to describe people's strong and emotional commitment to something, so I guess it works. I still recommend against using that word because it is technically incorrect, but I understand what you mean.

This has gotten way more preachy than I intended, but I'm going to end it here. We have both said what we believe, and I think we are done.

[-)G(-Sawyer]

There is no contradiction in God being omniscient, immortal, omnipotent, etc. Matter of fact, He MUST be all these things or He is not God.

Yes, God can be all loving and still send unbelievers to hell because He is holy. He gave us a choice, we chose to sin, so we all deserve Hell. However, He chose to save some of us, and somehow it is the ones who accept this (this is a mystery that no one can explain). Those who reject him have made their choice that they do not want to be with Him. God is love, love is not God. You cannot make the elements of God conflict with each other, they all must work together. Therefore, He is loving and merciful enough to offer salvation but because he is holy and just, he will punish those who do not accept what He offers. You cannot separate the elements of God, they all work together.

This is a sticking point for many people (Including Darwin), namely, that many people are going to Hell. However, realize that said people have made that decision conciously (I of course can't explain what happens if someone never has a chance, I tend to feel that everyone gets a chance). Failure to accept Christ is a decision to damn the soul. That's the way it is. We humans tend to have a false sense of being owed something, as if God owes us a chance to be saved. We all blew it (and continue to blow it), and we all deserve Hell.

It feels unfair, but it really isn't. Those who don't wish to accept salvation have made their decision, no one can change that. God could force them, but he has chosen to give us free will and let us make our own decisions.

Evolution is only a fact for those who accept the atheistic a priori assumptions. You are going from the perspective of one who does not believe in God so of course you will reject the book He wrote through human means (because it cannot make sense otherwise). The Bible is meaningless without God and God is undefined to us without the Bible. Without a prior belief in God, the whole 'I believe in God because of the Bible and the Bible because of God' turns into circular reasoning.

Accepting the Bible as a harmonious whole requires a belief in a single overarching Author, otherwise it is meaningless.

Your views are completely natural and consistent, and it is not for me to force my views (which I believe are also natural and consistent) upon you. That is your own business.

Creationism is a "fact" to those who believe it, I guess.

"Fact" is a really bad word to use in science and especially in philosophy, but it tends to describe people's strong and emotional commitment to something, so I guess it works. I still recommend against using that word because it is technically incorrect, but I understand what you mean.

This has gotten way more preachy than I intended, but I'm going to end it here. We have both said what we believe, and I think we are done.

That's all well and good just as long as you understand that your views and beliefs are only applicable to you or anyone who chooses to share the same beliefs. Anything else is simply a delusion on your part.

[Mandalore]

I find the Christian spin doctors attempts to have merit in them. They attempted to divert attention from what really happened to Jesus. It's well known that Jehovah and his son were Gods who resided in Valhalla but fell out with Thor. This lead to the infamous cross incident.


Now please have the sense to submit to Thor and Odin before you die so you can go to Valhalla! I only ask because I don't want you all to go to Niflheim!

[(SWGO)DesertEagle]

That's all well and good just as long as you understand that your views and beliefs are only applicable to you or anyone who chooses to share the same beliefs. Anything else is simply a delusion on your part.

Exactly my point.

I just want to make sure people understand that we have reasons for what we believe, it's not just made up, like everyone else, we interpret the world around us according to the a priori assumptions we make. Because the assumptions are different, we look at the same evidence and come up with a different interpretation.

[[JOG]WorldFear]

I accept that I'm unable to sway either of your beliefs, and I don't strive to - but I will respond just once more to Desert Eagle: Every argument you've made in support of the notion that the Bible is an infallible text, that the Earth is old, that Noah's flood transpired the way it is recounted in your Holy Book is flawed. Essentially, you bridge the gaps in evidence with faith, twisting things out of context and inventing the most irrational explanations. I'll admit that I'm anything but an expert in Evolutionary Theory, so I'm not prepared to go on arguing each one of your points without conducting some research, but I still maintain that, at its very core, your positions are not in line with mine, nor will they ever be, I suspect. I will never view Creationist contentions as viable, and I doubt you will ever embrace Evolution as the fact it is. I can't disprove the idea that God created the universe, but I can disprove the idea that the Bible is infallible - multiple contradictions exist when the text attempts to explain the nature of God: God cannot be both omnipotent and immortal, God cannot be omniscient and emotional, God cannot be all-loving and damn unbelievers.

To Homestar, I've nothing to say but that our views differ. I have no resentment towards Christians, in fact, I have the utmost respect for those who use their faith for good. I cannot argue with you, everything I need to say has been said, let's leave each other in peace?

There is no contradiction in God being omniscient, immortal, omnipotent, etc. Matter of fact, He MUST be all these things or He is not God.

Yes, God can be all loving and still send unbelievers to hell because He is holy. He gave us a choice, we chose to sin, so we all deserve Hell. However, He chose to save some of us, and somehow it is the ones who accept this (this is a mystery that no one can explain). Those who reject him have made their choice that they do not want to be with Him. God is love, love is not God. You cannot make the elements of God conflict with each other, they all must work together. Therefore, He is loving and merciful enough to offer salvation but because he is holy and just, he will punish those who do not accept what He offers. You cannot separate the elements of God, they all work together.

This is a sticking point for many people (Including Darwin), namely, that many people are going to Hell. However, realize that said people have made that decision conciously (I of course can't explain what happens if someone never has a chance, I tend to feel that everyone gets a chance). Failure to accept Christ is a decision to damn the soul. That's the way it is. We humans tend to have a false sense of being owed something, as if God owes us a chance to be saved. We all blew it (and continue to blow it), and we all deserve Hell.

It feels unfair, but it really isn't. Those who don't wish to accept salvation have made their decision, no one can change that. God could force them, but he has chosen to give us free will and let us make our own decisions.

Evolution is only a fact for those who accept the atheistic a priori assumptions. You are going from the perspective of one who does not believe in God so of course you will reject the book He wrote through human means (because it cannot make sense otherwise). The Bible is meaningless without God and God is undefined to us without the Bible. Without a prior belief in God, the whole 'I believe in God because of the Bible and the Bible because of God' turns into circular reasoning.

Accepting the Bible as a harmonious whole requires a belief in a single overarching Author, otherwise it is meaningless.

Your views are completely natural and consistent, and it is not for me to force my views (which I believe are also natural and consistent) upon you. That is your own business.

Creationism is a "fact" to those who believe it, I guess.

"Fact" is a really bad word to use in science and especially in philosophy, but it tends to describe people's strong and emotional commitment to something, so I guess it works. I still recommend against using that word because it is technically incorrect, but I understand what you mean.

This has gotten way more preachy than I intended, but I'm going to end it here. We have both said what we believe, and I think we are done.

I'm not trying to be insulting, I'm just curious. Eagle, do you take the Bible literally or do you just follow the lessons? Or something else?

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNDZb0KtJDk&feature=player_detailpage#t=175

[11_Panama_]

Watch this in it's entirety (almost 2 hrs), then come and argue some more.. if you can. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZS1x-6al2pE

[Col. Hstar]

God cannot be all-loving and damn unbelievers.

To be quite honest I agree with this statement. I don't believe in the Hell fire doctrine. No where does the bible mention a place called hell. The commonly misinterpreted word Sheol is not a place of eternal damnation but mankind's common grave.

Couple Scriptures to Look up:

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts* do perish.”

Eccl. 9:5, 10: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all

Rom. 6:23: “The wages sin pays is death.”


Pepsi you and I will never agree on the subject of evolution. I never harbored resentment towards you, but I will always point out that evolution is NOT a fact of science. It is a faith based belief as much as belief in God. Experiments saying it could have happened are not proof that it did happen. You feel that it is proof of evolution but those are YOUR opinions. Think about your first post, there is a reason a majority of the people do not accept evolution as a fact, cause it isn't, it's a theory.

Yeah I know I said you could have the last word but I wanted to respond to the hell fire stuff