Does Scipture exclude the rich from Heaven?

[Bryant]

No, it does not. The eye of the needle is not a sewing needle, but rather the entrance into a city for people to walk through. In order for a camel to get through it would have to basically get on the ground and be pushed through.

By the way, Matthew would have been written in Greek. Also, I would suggest using the NKJV, it is a word-for-word translation like KJV but without the old-english.

I have heard this explanation before, what is the Greek word/phrase used in this instance? You'll have to excuse my questioning since Christians tend to change Scriptural connotation and acceptance every fifty years it feels like. xD

This is what I was taught (I can't remember if it was only taught as a possibility or not), I don't study greek. It fits with the idea of needing humility (which the rich often lack), and the idea that riches can't save. If we assume it is a sewing needle, it might actually fit better with the following verses (which are right after the passage you provided):

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

These verses sum up the passage very well, and I don't think an explanation is needed (given what has already been said by others).


In response to your 50 years thing (you must be very old by the way), I would tell you to be careful what you hear. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, and anyone can claim to know the truth, but it doesn't change the fact that there is only 1 real truth.

[11_Panama_]

King David was wealthy, God liked him.

[Hobo]

I think rich in this case would mean those rich in the world's eyes.

I'm almost certain that compared to the world, everyone on this site is in the 1% when it comes to wealth

[Col. Hstar]

Also it is important to understand what this man was asking. At vs 20 He came asking what more good he could do. He wanted to know what was lacking. At vs 21 Jesus offered him a once in a lifetime opportunity, to become one of his followers. The fact that the man was grieved at the prospect of selling all his possessions and living a missionary's life shows that his priorities were misplaced. Jesus did not condemn him for not selling his possessions, That is the point of the camel in the needles eye illustration. It was not a condemnation against people who have money, but an example of how hard the transition would be for those who develop a love of money.

Love of money is different from having money. Circumstances are different for everyone, but it's what each person chooses to prioritize in their lives that is important. Having money or not having money does not change your "status" with God, or whether you have a heavenly calling or the hope of everlasting life

[Mandalore]

No, it does not. The eye of the needle is not a sewing needle, but rather the entrance into a city for people to walk through. In order for a camel to get through it would have to basically get on the ground and be pushed through.

By the way, Matthew would have been written in Greek. Also, I would suggest using the NKJV, it is a word-for-word translation like KJV but without the old-english.

I have heard this explanation before, what is the Greek word/phrase used in this instance? You'll have to excuse my questioning since Christians tend to change Scriptural connotation and acceptance every fifty years it feels like. xD

This is what I was taught (I can't remember if it was only taught as a possibility or not), I don't study greek. It fits with the idea of needing humility (which the rich often lack), and the idea that riches can't save. If we assume it is a sewing needle, it might actually fit better with the following verses (which are right after the passage you provided):

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

These verses sum up the passage very well, and I don't think an explanation is needed (given what has already been said by others).


In response to your 50 years thing (you must be very old by the way), I would tell you to be careful what you hear. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, and anyone can claim to know the truth, but it doesn't change the fact that there is only 1 real truth.

This last paragraph is honestly the thing that drives me up the wall with religious people. The fact that you proclaim one truth even with no real evidence over other sects or religions. The fact that religious persuasions run almost perfectly through family lines and geographically should say something about your "truth" not to mention the correlation between religion and low church attendance through church and low levels of religion among the highly educated says something about how religion works.

Let's be honest, if you had been born in India odds are you would not be Christian. Same with the middle east and China. Or be orthodox if you were born in Russia.

[Bryant]

I have heard this explanation before, what is the Greek word/phrase used in this instance? You'll have to excuse my questioning since Christians tend to change Scriptural connotation and acceptance every fifty years it feels like. xD

This is what I was taught (I can't remember if it was only taught as a possibility or not), I don't study greek. It fits with the idea of needing humility (which the rich often lack), and the idea that riches can't save. If we assume it is a sewing needle, it might actually fit better with the following verses (which are right after the passage you provided):

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”
26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

These verses sum up the passage very well, and I don't think an explanation is needed (given what has already been said by others).


In response to your 50 years thing (you must be very old by the way), I would tell you to be careful what you hear. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, and anyone can claim to know the truth, but it doesn't change the fact that there is only 1 real truth.

This last paragraph is honestly the thing that drives me up the wall with religious people. The fact that you proclaim one truth even with no real evidence over other sects or religions. The fact that religious persuasions run almost perfectly through family lines and geographically should say something about your "truth" not to mention the correlation between religion and low church attendance through church and low levels of religion among the highly educated says something about how religion works.

Let's be honest, if you had been born in India odds are you would not be Christian. Same with the middle east and China. Or be orthodox if you were born in Russia.

I was born and raised in a Christian household, went to Church all my life. I only really began to understand what it meant to be a Christian when I met born-again Christians (people without these family lines, people that really experienced God). At this stage in my life, I would say that I believe in God because of what I have experienced in my life - not because of my family.

And by the way, the fact that religious persuasions runs through family lines and geography doesn't say anything about the truth, it only says something about the quality of faith these people have. I would guess that most people in the world say they believe in something because of those reasons you stated, and not because they are actually pursuing God on their own. But that has no effect on the truth. For that same reason, as people get more educated they tend to turn away from just repeating their family beliefs, because they didn't truly hold them themselves (and not because the truth lacked).

You're really diving into the meaning of what it means to know the real truth, and what it means to really believe and follow something. I think this is a really (a lot of reallys, lol) difficult topic, as it actually covers a lot of things, and I hope I've been explaining my arguments well.

[11_Panama_]

I think the "educated ones" that don't worship, don't worship because of their lifestyle. Hectic schedules and daily "drama" keeps them away. I don't believe they all stop believing because they're "educated". There are many professionals and men of science that are religious. That's one reason why I still believe.. smarter men than me do.
About having the faith we have through family.. is correct. I was born Roman Catholic, 80% of Panama is, but as I got older.. I wanted to find my own way. I shed the label and became inquisitive. Seeing through unfiltered eyes.
I also found it disturbing that I was labeled "Roman" catholic.. the same people that killed Christ. Is like praising JKF through Oswald.

[Col. Hstar]

I think the "educated ones" that don't worship, don't worship because of their lifestyle. Hectic schedules and daily "drama" keeps them away. I don't believe they all stop believing because they're "educated". There are many professionals and men of science that are religious.

I agree with this. Many people with an atheist belief like to believe that all religious beliefs come from ignorant people people who blindly follow family traditions. This can be said about anyone with any beliefs including people who don't believe in God. But many people actually do put thought into their own beliefs.

I think that from the responses in this thread it shows proof that we do base our beliefs on educated study.

[WD-40]

I think 'rich' refers to the self-centered, selfish behavior, and self-preservation of individuals regarding the actions Jesus referenced....not money.

[[NH]Shadow]

I think 'rich' refers to the self-centered, selfish behavior, and self-preservation of individuals regarding the actions Jesus referenced....not money.

Yeah. Pretty much. I think that barring the rich frm heaven would be kinda dumb. The Bible is saying that

self-centered

and selfish people, who are focused on the things of this world, and not of heaven,will not go to heaven. One of the principles really focused on in the Bible is generosity and charity.