Immigration reform ideas.

[NiteRunner81]

Hass, you better watch it, I'm starting to actually like you

[CommanderOtto]

I am a foreigner, and I think the relaxed laws to stop illegal immigrants are completely ridiculous. No wonder there are tons of illegal immigrants here... they can get a driver's license, they can buy a house, they can buy a car, they can open bank accounts, they can ask for loans.... they can basically do anything without documents. In other countries where I have been, you CAN'T do anything without your documentation. Thus, it would be impossible to live there and get away with being illegal. I mean seriously, how can the state of Nevada actually be allowed under federal law to give a driver's license to an undocumented person?? Not to mention that I noticed the cops don't do anything anymore. There are of course, extremists like Joe Arpaio who always add a racial touch to their job, but the authorities NEED to do their job and deport people who are breaking the law. How come McDonalds can hire so many illegal immigrants without suffering any legal and financial consequences?

I find it amazing that people, in an ILLEGAL status, can just protest in front of the white house without being deported. What really confuses me is that law-abiding, decent, educated foreigners are not allowed to become citizens if they have ever broken the law at any point, but the current government is actually thinking of giving citizenship to millions of people who are illegal... in other words, who have broken the law already.

However, it is important to note that there are people who came here as kids, grew up, and are in essence Americans without papers (those from the dream act). Believe me, those young people are in no way mexicans anymore.... and won't go back there anyway. Since it is not their fault that their parents were breaking the law, maybe it is the right thing to give them some sort of legal status, since they have lived here all their lives. But government action should be much more tough against other, new, illegal immigrants.

and I am not being ambiguous here... I just think that there should be some common sense. People are breaking the law, and it should not go unpunished, but it is also stupid to deny that the problem exists and thus, something should be done to give documentation to those few who deserve it.

[Pootus]

"Immigration Reform" is a farce. Current immigration laws are not enforced.
What we are witnessing is the Balkanization of America. Any open society cannot allow a river of people entering illgally and expect good things to happen. Any society cannot one specific group of persons to enter their country illegally and expect good things to happen. There was a time when mass immigration was needed to flesh out the territoies of the United States, but not any more. You cannot encourage uneducated persons to come here and expect them to make real contributions. I laugh at folks who say its not fair, and these people deserve a chance. If you feel that way, then remember to leave a $50.oo tip specifically for the dish washers in the kitchen of the restaurant you eat at. Because that sure as hell aren't making any money.

I get tired of hearing the Mexican government complain and sue our country. All the while their government is brutal towards
any other persons attempting to enter Mexico in any way.

America needs to amend the law granting instant citizenship to anyone born in this country. There is no other country in the world that has a similar law.

To be truly fair, America should have a geographical quota when considering immigration. Allowing millions of uneducated Mexican people to flood this country isn't fair to the million's of Eastern Europeans, many of whom have college degrees and can speak English. Nor is it fair to million's of educated Asian and Pacific Islanders who again can speak English. It's really not fair that one country is ale to flood into our country because of their geographic position to ours, while millions of potentially better candidates for citizenship have long waits.

Assimilation is the key for the benefit of Immigration. But having 2nd generation Americans belong to gangs is not. Nor is forbidding students from wearing an American Flag tee shirt for fear that it offends an immigrant.

I believe that Immigration Reform should start by sealing our borders, and taking down those signs that warn our citizens in the border states that they are entering dangerous territory, while still on American Soil. And for people to realize that, violating Immigration Law is A CRIME!!

[(SWGO)Kren]

I am a foreigner, and I think the relaxed laws to stop illegal immigrants are completely ridiculous. No wonder there are tons of illegal immigrants here... they can get a driver's license, they can buy a house, they can buy a car, they can open bank accounts, they can ask for loans.... they can basically do anything without documents. In other countries where I have been, you CAN'T do anything without your documentation. Thus, it would be impossible to live there and get away with being illegal. I mean seriously, how can the state of Nevada actually be allowed under federal law to give a driver's license to an undocumented person?? Not to mention that I noticed the cops don't do anything anymore. There are of course, extremists like Joe Arpaio who always add a racial touch to their job, but the authorities NEED to do their job and deport people who are breaking the law. How come McDonalds can hire so many illegal immigrants without suffering any legal and financial consequences?

I find it amazing that people, in an ILLEGAL status, can just protest in front of the white house without being deported. What really confuses me is that law-abiding, decent, educated foreigners are not allowed to become citizens if they have ever broken the law at any point, but the current government is actually thinking of giving citizenship to millions of people who are illegal... in other words, who have broken the law already.

However, it is important to note that there are people who came here as kids, grew up, and are in essence Americans without papers (those from the dream act). Believe me, those young people are in no way mexicans anymore.... and won't go back there anyway. Since it is not their fault that their parents were breaking the law, maybe it is the right thing to give them some sort of legal status, since they have lived here all their lives. But government action should be much more tough against other, new, illegal immigrants.

and I am not being ambiguous here... I just think that there should be some common sense. People are breaking the law, and it should not go unpunished, but it is also stupid to deny that the problem exists and thus, something should be done to give documentation to those few who deserve it.

So the problem can be due to informal immigration, corruption of businesses, lack of tight border controls and the fact that the government is not working for the people by preventing this from happening but are relaxed enough to let it continue. The current immigration controls would need to be reformed which is likely to be of significant cost and once achieved it would impact the economy of the businesses that employ individuals so by enforcing policies and will subsequently damage the businesses of local employers who could also employ citizens also, perhaps forcing them out of business and removing them from that town/city with loss of all jobs? Things like this would have a negative impact so is it better to turn a blind-eye or make the changes?

Common sense is great but applying this to Government policies is not that straightforward. The fact that jobs are being impacted due to immigration issues it is pushing this issue to the forefront even more like those who want to secure jobs which Nite mentioned relates to her husband.

In order to make changes then reformation is required but can this ever be fully achieved anytime soon? Not an easy thing considering undocumented immigration and informal employment has been in place within the USA for a long time and is engrained within society and has been acceptable. Given the economy and that people are struggling it will no doubt become of more a concern.

@Nite

EDIT:
And Kren -- its never been that undocumented workers are more suited for a job than a white person, its the federal and state kick backs that employers get by hiring a certain percentage of minorities.. ever heard of affirmative action?? Something that affects my husband directly since he's been told multiple times that if he wasn't white he would have been hired on at Intel (he is a contractor) as a FTE YEARS ago. How is that [m'kay] fair??

For individuals who have entered the country without official documentation then obviously that is issue and this is clearly not fair irrespective of colour, again an example where common sense and fair screening should apply but the system has failed you and your husband. In terms of hiring from minorities in general I take it you are referring to undocumented workers?

Ultimately what’s the catalyst to make the changes and even if solution presents itself to make the changes and fully implement it will take years to achieve and at what cost?

Kren

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

"Immigration Reform" is a farce. Current immigration laws are not enforced.
What we are witnessing is the Balkanization of America. Any open society cannot allow a river of people entering illgally and expect good things to happen. Any society cannot one specific group of persons to enter their country illegally and expect good things to happen. There was a time when mass immigration was needed to flesh out the territoies of the United States, but not any more. You cannot encourage uneducated persons to come here and expect them to make real contributions. I laugh at folks who say its not fair, and these people deserve a chance. If you feel that way, then remember to leave a $50.oo tip specifically for the dish washers in the kitchen of the restaurant you eat at. Because that sure as hell aren't making any money.

I get tired of hearing the Mexican government complain and sue our country. All the while their government is brutal towards
any other persons attempting to enter Mexico in any way.

America needs to amend the law granting instant citizenship to anyone born in this country. There is no other country in the world that has a similar law.

To be truly fair, America should have a geographical quota when considering immigration. Allowing millions of uneducated Mexican people to flood this country isn't fair to the million's of Eastern Europeans, many of whom have college degrees and can speak English. Nor is it fair to million's of educated Asian and Pacific Islanders who again can speak English. It's really not fair that one country is ale to flood into our country because of their geographic position to ours, while millions of potentially better candidates for citizenship have long waits.

Assimilation is the key for the benefit of Immigration. But having 2nd generation Americans belong to gangs is not. Nor is forbidding students from wearing an American Flag tee shirt for fear that it offends an immigrant.

I believe that Immigration Reform should start by sealing our borders, and taking down those signs that warn our citizens in the border states that they are entering dangerous territory, while still on American Soil. And for people to realize that, violating Immigration Law is A CRIME!!

Please understand I am not calling you stupid...Just your views on this topic

According to your statement, you would rather bring in highly educated foreign immigrants to compete for the highest paying jobs in our economy than compete with the desperate and illiterate for jobs that aren't worth minimum wage to do.

Only a lazy person, born in this country as a citizen with all the benefits citizenship brings (public education, health care safety net, income safety net as well as rights and protection from prosecution and persecution) should fear that a peasant from another country with little to no education or specialty skills, with literally nothing going for him but the strength of his back will take from him what is his birthright as an American. Opportunity.

With all those advantages any person, born and raised anywhere from the meanest ghetto to the filthiest trailer park in the United States should have more advantages when presented with opportunities than the class of worker you wish to bar from legal immigration. Anyone who is afraid of competing for a job with one of these men are either lazy or stupid or both.

Today's world economy exploits the peasant worker (as it always has). The United States doesn't have any (other than illegal and migrant workers). This is why while we don't manufacture any low priced goods the cost of everyday items is at its historical lowest point ever. Billions of peasant workers in other countries are working to manufacture products we buy and use. They are not made here because we won't let peasants come here and build them in U.S. factories.

If you want good paying middle income and upper income opportunities in this country we need a competitive low wage workforce. I believe we should open our borders to all worker immigrants from any nation (with proper screening for criminals and the like) as we did at the beginning of our industrial revolution. Use the existing guidelines in place for the Green Card immigration program. Bring in only functional labor force immigrants who's status is tied to having a job and following the path to citizenship including paying taxes, sitting on juries learning our language, our history and basic Civics. The result will be a powerhouse labor class capable of competing in the world economy and exploding our GDP and lowering debt.

Foreign peasants will make our shoes and televisions, iPhones and George Foreman Grills. Wouldn't it make more sense if they were making them in the U.S., paying U.S. taxes and on the way to becoming hard working American citizens?

[CommanderOtto]

uhhh... that's why we have something called 'international trade" dread... instead you are proposing that millions of people from third world countries come to the united states. That would only reduce salaries for american workers drastically. And the Gilded Age might sound good, but quality of life really sucked. One thing is GDP growth, another thing is to get sustainable growth with real quality of life. The U.S is way better now than in the gilded age.

[ProfessorDreadNaught]

uhhh... that's why we have something called 'international trade" dread... instead you are proposing that millions of people from third world countries come to the united states. That would only reduce salaries for american workers drastically. And the Gilded Age might sound good, but quality of life really sucked. One thing is GDP growth, another thing is to get sustainable growth with real quality of life. The U.S is way better now than in the gilded age.

What we have is a trade imbalance resembling a third world country, an income to debt ratio any tin-pot dictator would be ashamed of and an economic stagnation/decline that has anyone with a lick of sense scurrying to change greenbacks for gold. What idiot told you that creating a low skill immigrant workforce will drastically reduce salaries for american workers? A union boss? A politician? The only jobs these folks could take are the ones filled by illegals. Oh, and those filled by overpaid under-skilled lifers protected by an alphabet soup of corrupt organizations clinging to power by fear, coercion and bribery. All the jobs these guys could compete for were lost to China and Mexico in the last century. By the way, the difference between the "gilded age" and now is that the exploited immigrant worker then became the middle class the backbone of our future America, while today the exploited working class is becoming the middle class of emerging (and threatening) world powers.

[Darth Crater]

What we have is a trade imbalance resembling a third world country, an income to debt ratio any tin-pot dictator would be ashamed of and an economic stagnation/decline that has anyone with a lick of sense scurrying to change greenbacks for gold.

You know, I really should change my avatar back to the XKCD [citation needed] guy. It would save so much time.

[CommanderOtto]

uhhh... that's why we have something called 'international trade" dread... instead you are proposing that millions of people from third world countries come to the united states. That would only reduce salaries for american workers drastically. And the Gilded Age might sound good, but quality of life really sucked. One thing is GDP growth, another thing is to get sustainable growth with real quality of life. The U.S is way better now than in the gilded age.

What we have is a trade imbalance resembling a third world country, an income to debt ratio any tin-pot dictator would be ashamed of and an economic stagnation/decline that has anyone with a lick of sense scurrying to change greenbacks for gold. What idiot told you that creating a low skill immigrant workforce will drastically reduce salaries for american workers? A union boss? A politician? The only jobs these folks could take are the ones filled by illegals. Oh, and those filled by overpaid under-skilled lifers protected by an alphabet soup of corrupt organizations clinging to power by fear, coercion and bribery. All the jobs these guys could compete for were lost to China and Mexico in the last century. By the way, the difference between the "gilded age" and now is that the exploited immigrant worker then became the middle class the backbone of our future America, while today the exploited working class is becoming the middle class of emerging (and threatening) world powers.

Dread you think you are very smart, but I recommend you take Economics if you really want to talk like an economist. You use a few fancy words to cover the idiotic comments you make. NO, no idiot told me what to say. I can read and I know what I study. You like to insult people who do not agree with you, but I will counter that with a thoughtful response:

Look at this simple supply demand graph from wiki, which will do just fine for explaining.



Imagine this is a supply demand graph for Labor in the economy. The demand curve represents the companies demand for labor hours. The supply is the amount of labor hours produced by people (quantity of hours people will work for a price).

The supply and demand curves cross, and the point where they both cross is the equilibrium price at point Q.
if you remember your microecon course, you know that a sudden change, not resulting from price fluctuations, will cause the supply curve to shift. If there is a change affecting the total amount of labor hours (like letting millions of new workers from third world countries into the united states) that will shift the supply curve (the dotted line) to the right like in the picture above. Of course, there will be a much higher quantity of labor hours supplied (point Q1), but the price per hour of labor drops significantly. In other words, salaries fall. Duh!

Or lets take this graph here.



There you will see the domestic supply and demand. Imagine this graph is also talking of labor hours. In the domestic supply and demand the middle is the equilibrium price. But imagine you opened the borders to high quantities of foreign cheap labor. Guess what? The price of the world supply of labor is much cheaper than the domestic equilibrium price. That means that salaries fall from P to P1. And the quantity of domestic work hours fall as well (from Q to Q2). In other words... less work for domestic workers (in this case americans) because the price of imported labor was too low, so people have to work for the low salary or stay unemployed.

This does not mean I think immigration is bad, but it has to be calculated, specially when it is manual labor. And what do you think? That all americans study at universities and live in mansions like yours? No, there are many americans out there who have to do manual labor. Your comment is hardly a solution to the illegal immigration problem. Oh good idea, let's just bring in millions of people from third world countries. That will solve it! They will do all the manual labor and will just sit and relax as our salaries drop even further. And I repeat, that doesn't mean immigration is bad, but that is the reason that not many countries will give a visa to a manual labor worker. Advanced countries only usually give visa to people who study, for areas that are in high demand. Gilded Age politics doesn't work today. Your wishes to go back to that age show you don't clearly understand how poor american workers were in the 1870's all the way to the 1890's. So if you don't know what you are talking about, don't insult people and put them down or you will end up looking like a clown. Hey, it even rhymes.

What we have is a trade imbalance resembling a third world country, an income to debt ratio any tin-pot dictator would be ashamed of and an economic stagnation/decline that has anyone with a lick of sense scurrying to change greenbacks for gold.

lol? What kind of idiot told you that? A politician?

[CommanderOtto]

I know... that was a bit overkill lol.