HAHAHAHA!!!

[burzerker]

Ahh the apocolyptic climate fear mongers can't keep their stories straight: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/05 ... print.html

Now dirty dirty coal is the solution to our so called warming problems?? LOL!!! Maybe somebody should let the Dems know so they'll stop trying to shut down the coal industry. It would be funnier if they weren't trying to destroy the economic backbone of the world with their non-sense. Oh well.. I'm sure there'll be plenty of people trying to keep doing mind bending pretzles to keep the faith in their god Al Gore.

[Yanoda]

I'm sorry to say that this is a very narrow-minded view of the subject.

Sulfate aerosols and soot do reduce the incoming solar radiation on the surface albeit with setbacks.

Many studies do show a correlation to sulfate aerosol concentrations to a decrease of Surface Solar Radiation (SSR). Unfortunately sulfate aerosols have a very strong negative effect on ecosystems and human health. Acid rain ((dilluted) sulfuric acid) is one of the main causes of high sulfate aerosol concentrations in the atmosphere. The effects of which were perfectly observable in the 70's, as several forests in US and Europe were suffering severe damages from the increased acidity in the soil. Structures are also vulnerable to this phenomenon (especially those made with limestone). Human health is also a factor since the increased acidity of the rain can cause skin irritations and damage to those more sensitive. Yes, natural/normal rain is already slightly acidic but that is due to the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere and has a pH of about 5. Sulfur aerosols further reduce the pH of natural occurring rain.

Soot not only reduces the surface solar radiation but also has a 60% green house effectiveness of CO2 (carbon dioxide). So the assumed cooling effect is practically negated. Soot is an airborne particulate er which can cause damages to the human lung and hazardous to the general health. Not only that, but with the burning of fossil fuels (especially coal) other harmful substances/elements are emitted. Those include Mercury (damages the nervous system), Uranium, Thorium, Arsenic and several other heavy metals that are harmful to the human health and the environment. Several studies also show a correlation to lung cancer and soot.

These are just a few of the setbacks Sulfate aerosols and Soot can cause to both humans and environment. So, one must decide whether the 'job' & energy producing advantages and reduction of SSR of coal power plants will be worth it with the negative health effects on both humans and the environment. The negative effects of burning coal will very likely have a long-term effect on families and communities (possibly a few generations). The environment will also take a while to recover to the state it was before coal burning was so wide spread.

With China and India being the largest emitters of Sulfate aerosols (sulfur dioxide) and soot today, it is of no surprise that they are currently suffering from the reduced air quality and damages of the environment. Don't forget, the pollution can be transported over large distances and affect other countries that have little or no coal factories. The results of burning so much coal can even be seen from space as a large brown cloud hovering over China and India, the phenomenon is called Asian Brown Cloud. The 'Brown Cloud' is observed to travel over large distances, depending on the weather patterns it can reach the other side of the world within several days to a week.

I congratulate you for reading this far and hope this helped those in understanding the view of those that criticize the use of coal power plants.

Cheers

Yanoda

[WD-40]

I feel like I just visited the 'Wikipedia' website.

[haasd0gg]

Thanks china
Thanks india

[Yanoda]

I feel like I just visited the 'Wikipedia' website.

It is difficult to explain the entire effects of Sulfur dioxide and soot on atmosphere, biosphere, lithosphere, hydrosphere etc. within a few sentences.
If I would just talk about one side of the story (i.e. burz's post/link), then I can considerably reduce the text... but undermine the entire phenomenon and leave important facts/information.
If the wall of text is too much, then I'll compress it as much as possible in the future
Since I'm Majoring in the Environmental Sciences, it of course stimulates my engagement in the subject about aerosols, global dimming phenomenon, particulate transport etc.

Cheers

Yanoda

[WD-40]

HONG KONG, China -- A dense blanket of pollution, dubbed the "Asian Brown Cloud," is hovering over South Asia, with scientists warning it could kill millions of people in the region, and pose a global threat. In the biggest-ever study of the phenomenon, 200 scientists warned that the cloud, estimated to be two miles (three kilometers) thick, is responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths a year from respiratory disease. By slashing the sunlight that reaches the ground by 10 to 15 percent, the choking smog has also altered the region's climate, cooling the ground while heating the atmosphere, scientists said on Monday.

The potent haze lying over the entire Indian subcontinent -- from Sri Lanka to Afghanistan -- has led to some erratic weather, sparking flooding in Bangladesh, Nepal and northeastern India, but drought in Pakistan and northwestern India.

"There are also global implications, not least because a pollution parcel like this, which stretches three kilometers high, can travel half way round the globe in a week, " U.N. Environment Program chief Klaus Toepfer told a news conference in London on Sunday. The U.N.'s preliminary report comes three weeks before the Earth Summit in Johannesburg, which opens on August 26, where all eyes will be on how not to overburden the planet.

Global threat
While haze hovers over other parts of the world, such as above America and Europe, what surprised scientists was just how far the cloud extended, and how much black carbon was in it, according to A P Mitra from India's National Physical Laboratory. Asia's brown haze is altering the weather, creating acid rain. A cocktail of aerosols, ash, soot and other particles, the haze's reach extends far beyond the study zone of the Indian subcontinent, and towards East and Southeast Asia.

While many scientists once thought that only lighter greenhouse gases, such as carbon dioxide, could travel across the Earth, they now say that aerosol clouds can too. "Biomass burning" from forest fires, vegetation clearing and fossil fuel was just as much to blame for the shrouding haze as dirty industries from Asia's great cities, the study found. A large part of the aerosol cloud comes from inefficient cookers, where fuels such as cowdung and kerosene are used to cook food in many parts of Asia, says Mitra.

Acid rain
Using data from ships, planes and satellites to study Asia's haze during the northern winter months of 1995 to 2000, scientists were able to track it's journey to pristine parts of the world, such as the Maldives, to see how it affected climate.

They discovered not only that the smog cut sunlight, heating the atmosphere, but also that it created acid rain, a serious threat to crops and trees, as well as contaminating oceans and hurting agriculture. "It was much larger than we thought," said Mitra. The report suggested the pollution could be cutting India's winter rice harvest by as much as 10 percent.

The report calculated that the cloud -- 80 percent of which was man-made -- could cut rainfall over northwest Pakistan, Afghanistan, western China and western central Asia by up to 40 percent.

While scientists say it is just early days and they need more scientific data, they do say the regional and global impact of the haze will intensify over the next 30 years, with an estimated five billion people living in Asia. Nobel laureate Paul Crutzen -- one of the first scientists to identify the causes of the hole in the ozone layer and also involved in the U.N. report -- said up to two million people in India alone were dying each year from atmospheric pollution. In the next phase of the project, scientists will collect data from the entire Asian region, over more seasons with more observation sites and refine their techniques.

But because the lifetime of pollutants are short and they can be rained out, scientists are hopeful that if Asians use more efficient ways of burning fuel, such as better stoves, and cleaner sources of energy, time has not run out.

Source: NY Times
Pollution Linked to Deaths in India
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

ONDON, Aug. 11 (AP) -- The two-mile-thick blanket of pollution over South Asia may be causing premature deaths in India on a large scale, and both flooding and drought in other areas, according to a United Nations-sponsored study being released Monday. The grimy cocktail of ash, soot, acids and other damaging airborne particles is as much the result of low-tech polluters like wood- and dung-burning stoves, cooking fires and forest clearing as it is of dirty industries, the study found. Advertisement

"When you think about air pollution, many people think of industry and fossil fuels as the only causes," said Paul Crutzen, one of the report's authors and a scientist at the Max-Planck Institute for Chemistry in Mainz, Germany. Often ignored was "biomass burning," including forest fires and the burning of vegetation to clear land or to warm the homes of poor people, he said at a news conference in London. More than 200 scientists contributed to the study, overseen by the United Nations Environment Program in preparation for the World Summit on Sustainable Development opening Aug. 26 in Johannesburg. They used data from ships, planes and satellites to study Asia's haze from 1995 to 2000. The scientists say some trends are clear.

Respiratory illness appears to be increasing along with the pollution in densely populated South Asia, with one study suggesting 500,000 premature deaths annually in India.

...And then there are the 'other' reasons that contribute to this problem....

[Matt-Chicago]

Main crux of that story - even though the last decade was the hottest on record, it would have been worse if not for so much pollution blocking the sun. When developing countries reduce those emissions, global warming will be accelerated that much more.

[Duel of Fates]

Main crux of that story - even though the last decade was the hottest on record, it would have been worse if not for so much pollution blocking the sun. When developing countries reduce those emissions, global warming will be accelerated that much more.

Ummmm . . . What? Not sure what point your trying to make there.

[haasd0gg]

Main crux of that story - even though the last decade was the hottest on record, it would have been worse if not for so much pollution blocking the sun. When developing countries reduce those emissions, global warming will be accelerated that much more.

Ummmm . . . What? Not sure what point your trying to make there.

Global warming is actually saving us, so everyone can go back to making fun of al gore and his fandangled internet invention

[Duel of Fates]

It's not the heat that gets ya, it's the humidity.