Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Crisis

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Re: Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Cri

Postby (SWGO)Minas_Thirith » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:06 pm

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:I'll start with why MT's question was indeed ridiculous and to me deserved a flippant response. He asked what I believe so that he can start new flame threads to presumably attack my beliefs.


Not at all, you presume that everyone is like you and will use the things that you say against them.
The question isn't ridiculous at all, and the thread that i'm going to make won't involve any politics so don't worry

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:I don't think that nobody else's views are right but my own.To that end I'm sure that you were indoctrinated with certain beliefs about your countries political system the same as I was. When I said there "was no hope," I was expressing the notion that there is little hope I would be able to change the minds of our older European friends and even our younger ones like MT.


Yes dread if you come to anyone with things that are "logical" to YOU your bound to have no sucsess at all
Also i think your quite wrong about my age, since there are only 2 SWGO members from Europe that are older then me, and one of them if i'm not mistaken, hasn't posted here yet, wich is probably a good choice if he has to read all the giberish in this thread.

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:You could of course skip threads on American politics and leave them to the Americans.


You have failed to read the title dread, this isn't only about YOUR politics.

MT
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Re: Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Cri

Postby SWINE FLU » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:11 pm

Hey, Dread, while you're at it, please tell us your views on religion, evolution and politics?

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Re: Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Cri

Postby WD-40 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 7:48 pm

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:I believe our founding documents spelled out the ideal system for supporting and protecting our individual basic rights and that through the generations it has been subverted.


The Godless and the Civil Libertarians are well underway of seeing to its destruction. :-|
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Re: Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Cri

Postby ProfessorDreadNaught » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:08 pm

Minas Thirith wrote:Well while your at it please tell me what you believe in, religion, evolution, politcs?
Since i'm still gathering the finishing touches to the next flame thread this would be interesting for it.

QFT. This statement/question reads as you wanting to flame my beliefs in subsequent threads.

Minas Thirith wrote:Also i think your quite wrong about my age, since there are only 2 SWGO members from Europe that are older then me, and one of them if i'm not mistaken, hasn't posted here yet, wich is probably a good choice if he has to read all the giberish in this thread.

You posted previously about getting lessons in school reviewing President Obama's Job plan. This combined with other posts lead me to believe you are not yet of voting age.

Minas Thirith wrote:You have failed to read the title dread, this isn't only about YOUR politics.

Is Ron Paul on the ballot in a European election I wasn't aware of?

Kren wrote:
ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:I believe our founding documents spelled out the ideal system for supporting and protecting our individual basic rights and that through the generations it has been subverted.


So how is the average American to change this, let's keep it related to Health Care to start with?

By electing Representatives who understand the proper role of government and its limitations on interfering with individuals in our society. Become involved with the issues and help develop plans and make policies to make it easier and more cost effective to provide health care to those that need it.

Health insurance isn't the answer. All insurance is gambling. You and I bet we will pay in less than we will use and the insurance company (properly so) sets the rates so you WON'T put in less than you use and will even cover the bozos who do manage to use more than they pay. THAT is why health insurance is so high. Health Care costs are high for other reasons. As I mentioned before, exempt non-profit health care providers and their organizations/facilities from lawsuits for free medical care. Create tax incentives for sponsorship of groups like these. Encourage Health Savings plans and incorporate them into retirement savings protections. Require reimbursement of all NIH grant monies spent on commercially exploited pharmaceuticals. Tie drug patent expiration to some percentage over break-even R&D costs. Limit malpractice lawsuit awards to the amount of money the plaintiff was life insured for.

How about any of THOSE ideas. They are designed to reduce the cost of care making it more affordable (free even) without taking more money from the people who don't use it.

Beyond Health Care, force your representatives to practice limited government. Judge each new proposal and reauthorization with a moral litmus test. "Does this proposal/agency/rule/bill reduce the rights of the individual to benefit the majority? If yes, is the breach mitigated by providing protection to an equal or greater number of individuals rights?" If the answer is "No" to the first question then the bill should be voted on based on its merits. If "Yes" to the second question, the same should happen. Otherwise the bill oversteps the authority of the government as established by the people and should NOT be considered. Other avenues to achieve the objective should be discovered and implemented (again according to a proposals merits)

Finally, free health care breeds apathy. Free ANYTHING breeds apathy unless society attaches a stigma to it. A country where health care is guaranteed should be the healthiest country on earth. Smokers and drinkers and overweight people should be shunned for taking for granted the amazing gift bestowed upon them. Fast food and sweets should be disdained for the harmful effects they have. People should be embarrassed to admit they saw a doctor for an illness or some other treatment. To be given something so valuable for free and not appreciate the gift enough to do what you can to not need it is in my way of thinking immoral. (remember I pay almost $20,000 a year for the same thing)

The countries that have implemented universal health care have lost that stigma for the "entitled." The U.S. is losing its battle against this kind of cultural shift and we dare not.

Swine Flu wrote:Hey, Dread, while you're at it, please tell us your views on religion, evolution and politics?

Post your beliefs on each topic in its own thread and I will either choose to support or disagree.

WD-40 wrote:
ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:I believe our founding documents spelled out the ideal system for supporting and protecting our individual basic rights and that through the generations it has been subverted.


The Gays, the Godless, and the Civil Libertarians are well underway of seeing to its destruction.

I don't know how tongue in cheek your response was, but I hope by now you understand my view on the supremacy of individual rights. From that you should probably deduce that I don't give a crap what sex you sleep with or even what kind of sex you have (adults only please). I don't care if you pray or not or who to. True Civil Libertarians believe as I do and are NOT the idiots who claim I can't have a voluntary prayer before a football game because the team and the game are school sponsored. Those morons have things twisted and should proclaim their extreme atheism and not cloak their efforts as protecting individual rights.
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Re: Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Cri

Postby (SWGO)Minas_Thirith » Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:11 pm

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:
Minas Thirith wrote:Well while your at it please tell me what you believe in, religion, evolution, politcs?
Since i'm still gathering the finishing touches to the next flame thread this would be interesting for it.

QFT. This statement/question reads as you wanting to flame my beliefs in subsequent threads.


That's what you make out of it, if you think your going to be attacked in what you say, or fear this could happen then you souldn't be on forums in the first place.

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:
Minas Thirith wrote:Also i think your quite wrong about my age, since there are only 2 SWGO members from Europe that are older then me, and one of them if i'm not mistaken, hasn't posted here yet, wich is probably a good choice if he has to read all the giberish in this thread.

You posted previously about getting lessons in school reviewing President Obama's Job plan. This combined with other posts lead me to believe you are not yet of voting age.


The only quote i gave from a teacher is something that was said 2 years ago, other then that i never mencioned any school lessons refering to obama's job plan, i don't go to school since i graduated so...

ProfessorDreadNaught wrote:
Minas Thirith wrote:You have failed to read the title dread, this isn't only about YOUR politics.

Is Ron Paul on the ballot in a European election I wasn't aware of?


You even failed to read the quote, my statement says that this thread has mutliple topics, since you seem to have a hard time understanding me, ill be more explicative.
There are 4 topics, Ron paul, healthcare, military spending, and the dept crisis
Besides ron paul (the healthcare[since it's both reducing and being abused on by some people still counts as Europe]) the rest of this thread counts for both the USA as for Europeans.

Since there are 4 topics and only 1/4 is purely for Americans since it's American politics it means that 25% of this thread is made for only Americans while the other 75% would count for both Americans and Europeans, hence my statement:
Minas Thirith wrote:this isn't only about your politics.


All i've learned from your posts is that you seriosly need to work on respecting others, beliefs and their opinions instead of trying to make people think what you think.

MT
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Re: Ron Paul: Healthcare, Military Spending And The Debt Cri

Postby ProfessorDreadNaught » Sun Nov 06, 2011 10:05 pm

Sorry MT, I confused a post from Heatmaster with you.

I'm guessing that English is a second language for you (you do a much better job with it than I do with Spanish) and the technicals of the way the topic is titled is confusing. Structurally though, the topic is Ron Paul with focus on Healthcare, Military Spending and the Debt Crisis. It is NOT 4 separate topics. Regardless, please expect more cheers for the home team when visiting another's stadium. That is to say, expect a bias toward American political methods in an American political forum topic.

Finally, the purpose of persuasive speech is to make people think what you agree with. That does not mean I don't respect other opinions, beliefs or ideas. I present my ideas in the best possible light and demonstrate what appears to be the weakness of opposing ideas on concepts.

Has universal health care helped literally millions of people? Yes. Am I glad that those without the means were otherwise still taken care of when in need? Absolutely. I am simply saying that the way it got done could be done better. Our people need to know what is wrong with the system you enjoy before adopting it. Whether you feel I am disrespecting you or your beliefs/opinions I won't apologize for it. I believe I am right in my assessment and no one has even TRIED to prove my assumptions wrong.

My logic: Forcibly taking something from someone is wrong. Forcing someone to work for free is wrong. The majority is not justified in abridging my rights by forcing me to pay for another persons health care or making doctors and nurses work for less than the value their skills and services can obtain in a free and unfettered marketplace. Ergo, government paid for health care is wrong.

Find a hole in that logic to discuss.
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