Speed Dets

[[m'kay]]

Yeah, it would be a great idea to make a server have the exact same rules as all these other servers that are well-established with a playerbase that probably dislikes SWGO servers because they aren't pr0skillz enough. That wouldn't fall through at all!

[FaiL.?]

Yeah, it would be a great idea to make a server have the exact same rules as all these other servers that are well-established with a playerbase that probably dislikes SWGO servers because they aren't pr0skillz enough. That wouldn't fall through at all!

It's just switching the tk settings...

[IJO sha-quan-jone]

Anyone who uses detpacks on anything other than hard targets like vehicles and turrets is a noob with no skill. No exceptions. I don't care how well you can throw it. It's not skill if Friendly Fire is off.

*prepares for the hate*

I throw them on top of buildings alot when the enemy is out of my LoS.

[TaTerToT]

Anyone who uses detpacks on anything other than hard targets like vehicles and turrets is a noob with no skill. No exceptions. I don't care how well you can throw it. It's not skill if Friendly Fire is off.

*prepares for the hate*

I mostly do play on Tk-On servers and I use dets, infact most pro players I know use them as well.

[THEWULFMAN]

If you're on a TK-on server (I always prefer "friendly-fire on" to "Team-kill on" because logically not every time you hurt your team-mate do they die), then yeah it's alright to use Dets. However, I don't consider someone a "pro" player if they have to resort to such low tactics as detpacks to kill me. If you can use your rifle, pistol, or even sniper rifle to kill me, then yeah. Then it's skill. Splash damage weapons such as the detpack and rocket launcher require a lot less skill to use than a rifle. Grenades are debatable since people can dodge them usually, so if you do get someone you either got lucky or had a good throw.

Any monkey can use a rocket launcher to kill people if they have semi-decent aim. It takes real skill to kill someone with a rifle.

[Fail]

If you dont want people to "noob" by det rushing then why have servers with tk off that make it possible

[Talon Karrde]

If you're on a TK-on server (I always prefer "friendly-fire on" to "Team-kill on" because logically not every time you hurt your team-mate do they die), then yeah it's alright to use Dets. However, I don't consider someone a "pro" player if they have to resort to such low tactics as detpacks to kill me. If you can use your rifle, pistol, or even sniper rifle to kill me, then yeah. Then it's skill. Splash damage weapons such as the detpack and rocket launcher require a lot less skill to use than a rifle. Grenades are debatable since people can dodge them usually, so if you do get someone you either got lucky or had a good throw.

Any monkey can use a rocket launcher to kill people if they have semi-decent aim. It takes real skill to kill someone with a rifle.

Well the counterargument to that and any competitive game is that you simply use what's there to win. But we're an SWGO server, we're here to have fun - we're not a bunch of elitists or stuck up "skill" players. We just play and want to have fun. Some people like having fun abusing what's allowable, others like gimping themselves and playing crappy classes, others are somewhere in between.

However, I do have a disdain for engineers (even though I use them myself - I wouldn't use them if I had lower ping like I did during the OSF/DrunkenMonkey days) because they have a clear advantage over a lot of the basic and advanced classes:
* They have a huge ammo supply.
* They are unaffected by mines and can disarm mines WITHOUT USING SECONDARY/EXPLOSIVE ORDINANCE.
* They have about the same amount of life as a regular Trooper
* The "spray" of their shotgun is actually in a very tight cluster and it fires a LOT of bullets - that cluster stays small even from distances where the Trooper's rifle would be ineffective.
* Both the primary and secondary weapons can easily OHKO people. The primary weapon usually takes 2-3 shots to kill. Additionally, the large amount of bullets it sprays has a tendency to result in random headshots that makes it very easy to OHKO people.
* Nobody uses the detpack for its original purpose anymore - it can be thrown like a grenade and has an AoE about the same as a grenade. It renders grenades from Troopers practically worthless because you can throw them in a controlled manner and control the detonation.
* They have FIVE PACKS where they can use to heal themselves. They're self-sufficient and can solo a lot of areas other classes would need a TEAM for. It doesn't take that much skill to run behind cover and heal yourself after an enemy has damaged you - tons of "high level" players do this. Get a kill, run behind cover, heal, get another kill, heal, etc.
* In team damage off environments, you can run at someone and mash right click to get an instant kill on almost any units, including heroes.

Take these bullet points and with rewards on these problems get amplified to a point where it's just plain stupid.

What do engineers lose in team damage on environments? The last bullet point. That's it. You can still play the engineer almost the same way.

Team damage off environments actually allow people to play another class that's sort of fun - the rocket trooper. Most of SWGO plays this and I think we like playing this class because of one reason - it's fun getting blown up and blowing each other up. In team damage off environments:

* Rocket trooper can fire at their feet to get instant kills on most units.
* They can drop mines in a pack and not hurt themselves.
* Throw nades on their feet as a means of cover to set other things up.
* Usually OHKO most units if they can get close enough with a mine.
* Kill off most vehicles with a mine.
* Take a nade in the face and survive.

With team damage on, Rocket Troops actually lose the first three things that are utilized. In addition they have some really obvious weaknesses:
* Take every advantage that the engineer has and make it the reverse:
--- They can get blown up by mines.
--- They have to use ordinance to remove mines.
--- They can't heal themselves.
--- They move slow - engineers move at about the same speed as troopers.
--- The rocket troop's primary weapon HAS to be fired at someone's feet. That means there will be many situations where you won't be able to utilize the terrain to make the splash damage hit the enemy.
--- The engineer's primary weapon reloads faster than a rocket trooper's.
--- Their secondary ordinance is much more versatile to use than your grenades as the explosions are controllable.

And so on and so forth. So whenever I hear people whining about rocket trooper "noobs" and they use engineer to "counter" them, it's not all that much better. That basic class is an S-tier class. Rocket Troopers at least add a basic class that can do some damage in team damage off environments, but it also gives engineer abusers one more abuseable trick for them to use.

In other words, SWBF2 is an unbalanced game and people will use what they can do get the kills. SWGO members usually just play rocket troop because they like blowing themselves and each other up. We're a community, not some elitist GMR clan like some other clans, and I'd like to keep it that way.

[theavengers85]

I dunno, I really like playing with a rocket trooper even with TK on. Its pretty funny to hit someone at really long range with a rocket and surprise the heck out of them.

It just gets quite a bit harder to use mines. Firing rockets doesn't change too much, as long as you dont try to get to close.

Best technique is to anticipate where the person will go, then throw the mine in that direction as far away from yourself as possible.

That's one way I got into NR :P. Managed to impress the head with a perfectly thrown mine onto the back stairs (the circular staircase) in Jabbas palace (XD). And yes, TK was on.


I never seem to do well with engies. My shots never seem to hit right, and I'm not that great at throwing dets.

[THEWULFMAN]

@Talon Karrde


I'm not an elitist because I'm obsessed with skill, I just hate that I can't play as a rifleman (my favorite class) because I get destroyed if I do(my ping doesn't assist me much either). You're forced to play as a Rocketeer or Engineer just to stay on the scoreboard.

It's a horribly unbalanced game, and my mods (specifically Battlefront 3) change that to even the classes out. Mines and detpacks aren't nearly as overpowered, Engineers are nerfed, Riflemen return as the class you need to play to win. Rocket Launchers are near worthless against infantry.

Medics and Heavy Weapons Specialists are two new classes. The former has an SMG type weapon and health packs (not ammo+health). The latter is armed with an LMG type weapon, and ammo packs (not health+ammo). My plan was to make every class feel like they're needed.

[WD-40]

Nice beakdown Talon.