2012 US Presidential Election

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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby kjeopardy » Fri Aug 24, 2012 2:22 am

Darth Crater wrote:Since it would be impossible for me to purchase the book and read through it in time to contribute to this discussion, I was hoping that WD would tell me what information from it he found convincing.

In what way is the healthcare system worse than previously? As I understand it, the system ensures that all people will have access to healthcare. This is something that is often considered a human right. I know anecdotes are useless, but one of my friends was previously unable to get insurance because he was misdiagnosed with cancer as a child.

What science do Republicans hate? They consistently deny the evidence that the Earth is warming, and that human actions have contributed to it. They insist that we should teach children baseless beliefs from one particular religion about the origin and development of life, as an equal to (or replacing entirely) the actual evidence and facts. Oh, and by the way, many of them are actively pushing to discriminate against homosexual couples.

I'm not saying I am a member of the Democratic party. I'm not saying I agree with them on everything. I just prefer them on the issues I care most about, such as actual rational thought and human rights. If I had actual choices, I would've gone with Jon Huntsman. I don't agree with everything he believes either, but a Republican who's willing to say "To be clear. I believe in evolution and trust scientists on global warming" is simultaneously my ideal and someone who could never get through the primary.


Read my post, never said it was worse. And Romney is not really like the majority of the Republicans: he's more moderate than most. Vote by the candidate, not the party.
"Mathematics is the queen of sciences and number theory is the queen of mathematics. She often condescends to render service to astronomy and other natural sciences, but in all relations she is entitled to the first rank."~Karl Friedrich Gauss
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby Outrider » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:08 am

mrjamwin wrote:What science might you be talking about that Republicans hate? The one where they use aborted fetuses for research?

The research done in obtaining stem cells from an embryo (not the same thing as a fetus) is meant to save lives. The sperm and egg used in the research are donated, so the consent of their donors is given for the cells' usage in research. The sperm and egg are then combined via in vitro fertilization, and the resulting zygote doesn't ever go back into a woman's uterus, so it technically doesn't get aborted once it serves its research purpose. Although extracting stem cells from an embryo does remove the possibility of it becoming a new human being one day, at least it was for a good cause, that is to save an existing life. And think of it this way: most sperm and egg cells don't ever get a chance to do what they are supposed to do anyway, and it could be because of nature itself, whether it would be through nocturnal emission in males or the menstrual cycle in females.

Anyway, I think I will vote for Obama (once I get around to registering), as his policies seem more beneficial to my family and me. I'm aware that some of his promises haven't been fulfilled yet, but I am also aware that being President of the United States isn't an easy job and that there will always be obstacles that will prevent things from getting done.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby (SWGO)KT » Fri Aug 24, 2012 3:53 am

Prepare for a 14 year olds bleak view on society! Yay!


Let me get straight to the point. The US and the entire world is [m'kay]. We're so superior cause were humans. No. Wrong. Politicians are [m'kay] up. I'm a pretty liberal regarding my views, but in now way am I part of any party. I don't understand how my Neighbors in DC spend so much time arguing on POINTLESS things instead of actually getting stuff DONE. They defend their particular views instead of compromising for the citizens. Ex. Why the heck do we spend so much time trying to convince everyone global warming is real to use it as a fight for renewable fuel? WHY DON'T YOU JUST SAY AIR QUALITY. That's a legitimate, provable reason. Boom helping the people. Why do republicans want less taxes and more cuts? Why do democrats want more taxes, less cuts? Why not do BOTH somewhat equally? Why do we spend time arguing over abortion? It should be pro choice and if it isn't in your values, dont do it! It's none of your business if someone else does it! Or why not regulate rules about when women can get abortions if choice is too uptight for y'all. BECAUSE THEY'RE ALL IDIOTS. Why don't they spend more money on education? Cause they're too stupid already and the country is just going to spiral downward because we have bad schools.

The world is screwed too. So many horrible things happen everyday and it isn't fair. I try not to complain about things I get like going to school and my braces because I'm fortunate to have them and I know other people would give up much more than the money I pay to get them. And it's unfair that they don't get the opprotunities I get. Why is America so fat and there are people who die in Africa every day skinny and starving? It's sad and disgusting.

I hate the world I live in and don't have any faith in any of the people who ate currently playing a part in my future.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby Darth Crater » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:04 am

... And that is why we don't let 14-year-olds vote. Your views seem to mostly be along the lines of "the government should work how I want it to", without taking into account any of the factors and complications that emerge from a government made of people. In particular, you're unilaterally assuming everyone has the same view as you on abortion - in reality, the other side believes it is murder and is trying to avoid deaths. (My personal view - abortion should not be permitted in a society where women have free access to perfect birth control. Until then, there are many cases where it's overall less harmful, so we should trust parents to make the right decision on their own)
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby (SWGO)KT » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:17 am

:/ well cause I don't really know that much about economics yet... Haha. But on the abortion thing, I did say why not have regulations. If it poses a threat to the mother, it should be allowed. Or if the unborn child had some type of disease. Why would you let that child go through so much pain before it would die anyway?

And the only 100% effective birth control is abstinence. Things can go wrong.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby Stranger » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:26 am

Sorry that this post is so long, but it is very interesting and worth the time.

FROM STEVE KROFT (60 Minutes)

This article begins to piece together the rise of Obama and his behavior in leading the nation along with many members of Congress (in particular the Democrats, such as the election of Pelosi as the minority leader in Congress)
If you have wondered where Obama came from and just how he quickly moved from obscurity to President, or why the media is "selective" in what we are told, here is the man who most probably put him there and is responsible. He controls President Obama's every move. Think this is absurd? Invest a few minutes and read this. You won't regret it.

Who is Obama? Obama is a puppet and here is the explanation of the man or demon that pulls his strings. It’s not by chance that Obama can manipulate the world. I don't think he knows how to tie his shoe laces. After reading this and Obama's reluctance to accept help on the oil spill you wonder if the spill is part of the plan to destroy the US ? "In history, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet someone planned it."/ Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Who Is George Soros? He brought the market down in 2 days. Here is what CBS' Mr. Steve Kroft's research has turned up. It's a bit of a read, and it took 4 months to put it together. "The main obstacle to a stable and just world order is the United States . "George Soros"

George Soros is an evil man. He's anti-God, anti-family, anti-American, and anti-good." He killed and robbed his own Jewish people. What we have in Soros, is a multi-billionaire atheist, with skewed moral values, and a sociopath's lack of conscience. He considers himself to be an elitist World class philosopher, despises the American way, and just loves to do social engineering and change cultures.

György Schwartz, better known to the world as George Soros, was born August 12, 1930 in Hungary . Soros' father, Tivadar, was a fervent practitioner of the Esperanto language invented in 1887, and designed to be the first global language, free of any national identity. The Schwartz's, who were non-practicing Jews, changed the family name to Soros, in order to facilitate assimilation into the Gentile population, as the Nazis spread into Hungary during the 1930s

When Hitler's henchman Adolf Eichmann arrived in Hungary , to oversee the murder of that country's Jews, George Soros ended up with a man whose job was confiscating property from the Jewish population.. Soros went with him on his rounds.

Soros has repeatedly called 1944 "the best year of his life." 70% of Mr. Soros's fellow Jews in Hungary, nearly a half-million human beings, were annihilated in that year, yet he gives no sign that this put any damper on his elation, either at the time or indeed in retrospect" During an interview with "Sixty Minute's" Steve Kroft, Soros was asked about his "best year."

KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson. SOROS: Yes. Yes.

KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from your fellow Jews, friends and neighbors. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.

KROFT: I mean, that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many, years. Was it difficult?

SOROS: No, not at all. Not at all, I rather enjoyed it.

KROFT: No feelings of guilt?

SOROS: No, only feelings of absolute power.

In his article, Muravchik describes how Soros has admitted to having carried some rather "potent messianic fantasies with me from childhood, which I felt I had to control, otherwise they might get me in trouble." Be that as it may. After WWII, Soros attended the London School of Economics, where he fell under the thrall of fellow atheist and Hungarian, Karl Popper, one of his professors. Popper was a mentor to Soros until Popper's death in 1994. Two of Popper's most influential teachings concerned "the open society," and Fallibilism.

Fallibilism is the philosophical doctrine that all claims of knowledge could, in principle, be mistaken. (Then again, I could be wrong about that.) The "open society" basically refers to a "test and evaluate" approach to social engineering. Regarding "open society" Roy Childs writes, "Since the Second World War, most of the Western democracies have followed Popper's advice about piecemeal social engineering and democratic social reform, and it has gotten them into a grand mess."

In 1956 Soros moved to New York City , where he worked on Wall Street, and started amassing his fortune. He specialized in hedge funds and currency speculation. Soros is absolutely ruthless, amoral, and clever in his business dealings, and quickly made his fortune. By the 1980s he was well on his way to becoming the global powerhouse that he is today.

In an article Kyle-Anne Shiver wrote for "The American Thinker" she says, "Soros made his first billion in 1992 by shorting the British pound with leveraged billions in financial bets, and became known as the man who broke the Bank of England . He broke it on the backs of hard-working British citizens who immediately saw their homes severely devalued and their life savings cut drastically, almost overnight."

In 1994 Soros crowed in "The New Republic ," that "the former Soviet Empire is now called the Soros Empire." The Russia-gate scandal in 1999, which almost collapsed the Russian economy, was labeled by Rep. Jim Leach, then head of the House Banking Committee, to be "one of the greatest social robberies in human history. "The "Soros Empire" indeed. In 1997 Soros almost destroyed the economies of Thailand and Malaysia . At the time, Malaysia 's Prime Minister, Mahathir Mohammad, called Soros "a = villain, and a moron." Thai activist Weng Tojirakarn said, "We regard George Soros as a kind of Dracula. He sucks the blood from the people."

The website Greek National Pride reports, "Soros was part of the full court press that dismantled Yugoslavia and caused trouble in Georgia , Ukraine and Myanmar [Burma] Calling himself a philanthropist, Soros' role is to tighten the ideological stranglehold of globalization and the New World Order while promoting his own financial gain. He is without conscience; a capitalist who functions with absolute amorality."

France has upheld an earlier conviction against Soros, for felony insider trading. Soros was fined 2.9 million dollars. Recently, his native Hungary fined Soros 2.2 million dollars for "illegal market manipulation." Elizabeth Crum writes that the Hungarian economy has been in a state of transition as the country seeks to become more financially stable and westernized. Soros deliberately driving down the share price of its largest bank put Hungary 's economy into a wicked tailspin, one from which it is still trying to recover.

My point here is that Soros is a planetary parasite. His grasp, greed, and gluttony have a global reach. But what about America ? Soros told Australia 's national newspaper "The Australian." " America , as the centre of the globalised financial markets, was sucking up the savings of the world. This is now over. The game is out," he said, adding that the time has come for "a very serious adjustment" in American's consumption habits. He implied that he was the one with the power to bring this about."

Soros: "World financial crisis was "stimulating" and "in a way, the culmination of my life's work."

Obama has recently promised 10 billion of our tax dollars to Brazil , in order to give them a leg-up in expanding their offshore oil fields. Obama's largesse towards Brazil came shortly after his political financial backer, George Soros, invested heavily in Brazilian oil (Pet rob ras).

Tait Trussel writes, "The Pet rob ras loan may be a windfall for Soros and Brazil , but it is a bad deal for the U. S. The American Petroleum Institute estimates that oil exploration in the U S could create 160,000 new, well-paying jobs, as well as $1.7 trillion in revenues to federal, state, and local governments, all while fostering greater energy security and independence."

A blog you might want to keep an eye on is SorosWatch. com. Their mission: "This blog is dedicated to all who have suffered due to the ruthless financial pursuits of George Soros. Your stories are many and varied, but the theme is the same: the destructive power of greed without conscience. We pledge to tirelessly watch Soros wherever he goes and to print the truth in the hope that he will one day be made to stop preying upon the world's poor, that justice will be served."

Back to America . Soros has been actively working to destroy America from the inside out for some years now. People have been warning us. Two years ago, news sources reported that "Soros [is] an extremist who wants open borders, a one-world foreign policy, legalized drugs, euthanasia, and on and on. This is off-the-chart dangerous."\\ In 1997 Rachel Ehrenfeld wrote, "Soros uses his philanthropy to change or more accurately deconstruct the moral values and attitudes of the Western world, and particularly of the American people. His "open society" is not about freedom; it is about license. His vision rejects the notion of ordered liberty, in favor of a PROGRESSIVE ideology of rights and entitlements."

Perhaps the most important of these "whistle blowers" are David Horowitz and Richard Poe. Their book "The Shadow Party" outlines in detail how Soros hijacked the Democratic Party, and now owns it lock, stock, and barrel. Soros has been packing the Democratic Party with radicals, and ousting moderate Democrats for years. The Shadow Party became the Shadow Government, which recently became the Obama Administration.

Discover The Networks. org (another good source) writes, "By his [Soros'] own admission, he helped engineer coups in Slovakia , Croatia , Georgia , and Yugoslavia . When Soros targets a country for "regime change," he begins by creating a shadow government, a fully formed government-in-exile, ready to assume power when the opportunity arises. The Shadow Party he has built in America greatly resembles those he has created in other countries prior to instigating a coup."

November 2008 edition of the German magazine "Der Spiegel," in which Soros gives his opinion on what the next POTUS (President of the U. S. ) should do after taking office. "I think we need a large stimulus package." Soros thought that around 600 billion would be about right. Soros also said that "I think Obama presents us a great opportunity to finally deal with global warming and energy dependence. The U. S. needs a cap and trade system with auctioning of licenses for emissions rights."

Although Soros doesn't (yet) own the Republican Party, like he does the Democrats, make no mistake, his tentacles are spread throughout the Republican Party as well.

Soros is a partner in the Carlyle Group where he has invested more than 100 million dollars. According to an article by "The Baltimore Chronicle's" Alice Cherbonnier, the Carlye Group is run by "a veritable who's who of former Republican leaders," from CIA man Frank Carlucci, to CIA head and ex-President George Bush, Sr.

In late 2006, Soros bought about 2 million shares of Halliburton, [Richard] Cheney's old stomping grounds. When the Democrats and Republicans held their conventions in 2000, Soros held Shadow Party conventions in the same cities, at the same time. In 2008, Soros donated $5,000,000,000 ( that’s Five Billion ) to the Democratic National Committee, DNC, to insure Obama's win and wins for many other Alinsky trained Radical Rules Anti-American Socialist. George has been contributing a $ billion plus to the DNC since Clinton came on the scene.

Soros has dirtied both sides of the aisle, trust me. And if that weren't bad enough, he has long held connections with the CIA. And I mustn't forget to mention Soros' involvement with the MSM (Main Stream Media), the entertainment industry (e. g. he owns 2.6 million shares of Time Warner), and the various political advertising organizations he funnels millions to. In short, George Soros controls or influences most of the MSM. Little wonder they ignore the TEA PARTY, Soro's NEMESIS.

As Matthew Vadum writes, "The liberal billionaire-turned-philanthropist has been buying up media properties for years in order to drive home his message to the American public that they are too materialistic, too wasteful, too selfish, and too stupid to decide for themselves how to run their own lives."

Richard Poe writes, "Soros' private philanthropy, totaling nearly $5 billion, continues undermining America 's traditional Western values. His giving has provided funding of abortion rights, atheism, drug legalization, sex education, euthanasia, feminism, gun control, globalization, mass immigration, gay marriage and other radical experiments in social engineering."

Some of the many NGOs (Non-Government Organizations) that Soros funds with his billions are: MoveOn. org, the Apollo Alliance , Media Matters for America , the Tides Foundation, the ACLU, ACORN, PDIA (Project on Death In America ), La Raza, and many more. For a more complete list, with brief descriptions of the NGOs, go to DiscoverTheNetworks. org.

Poe continues, "Through his global web of Open Society Institutes and Open Society Foundations, Soros has spent 25 years recruiting, training, indoctrinating and installing a network of loyal operatives in 50 countries, placing them in positions of influence and power in media, government, finance and academia."

Without Soros' money, would the Saul Alinsky's Chicago machine still be rolling? Would SEIU, ACORN, and La Raza still be pursuing their nefarious activities? Would Big Money and lobbyists still be corrupting government? Would our college campuses still be retirement homes for 1960s radicals?

America stands at the brink of an abyss, and that fact is directly attributable to Soros. Soros has vigorously, cleverly, and insidiously planned the ruination of America and his puppet, Barack Obama is leading the way.

Now after reading this think to your self, Do you really want four more years of Obama's Puppet Master? Well on second thought, it doesn't really matter seeing how persidents are controlled by their investors anyway. I'd wager our forefathers are turning in their graves now, and have been for some time.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby Darth Crater » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:38 am

It would have been better to link the original article, in case it cited sources, or included other links. Without any sourcing, I'm not really in a position to judge most of the claims. Could you either link the original or break down what you're trying to communicate into a couple of paragraphs?

KT, you're right, I was overly general before. There absolutely are cases when abortion should be permitted. Medical danger and rape are certainly among those cases. Diseases are a much grayer area; we'll have to see how that plays out. Anyway, we're certainly not living in that ideal society yet, hence my agreeing with you that it should be left to the individual for now.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby Stranger » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:45 am

There doesn't seem to be any links in the article but here is the link anyway. http://lisaromanekufoinsider.blogspot.com/2012/04/presidents-puppet-master.html. Clearly the first paragraph is written by someone esle. Let me know what you guys tthink about the article.
I apoligize for not providing the link in my first post.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby THEWULFMAN » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:49 am

Oh lawd. I should have known this topic was coming and prepared.

Stranger... what the mkay. I didn't make it past the third paragraph. I don't have the time to read all of that. I don't even care if you're right or not. It's way too god damn long, and I haven't slept yet today. Summarize, and link to the article as Crater mentioned for reasons Crater mentioned.-EDIT, you did the latter. Thank you.

----------------------------ஜ۩۞۩ஜ----------------------------

Well I can say I'm mostly going to agree with Crater. First off, I'm Independent. Neither party has my loyalty, since they both suck. For me this is really a case of choosing the lesser of two weevils (kudos to those who get the reference). There is no part about Romney I can get behind. He's terrible in every way I can think of, and do not want him leading my country. Obama hasn't done a lot of good, but hey, he hasn't made things much worse. So I'm not going to complain about him too much. He's pro-LGBT rights, so I can't help but like him. Mitt on the other hand is against them. That reason alone makes me throw in my support of Obama, even if I do so begrudgingly.

I'm pro-choice, even though I'm against abortion personally. This is America, the land of the free. And making abortion legal didn't start them, but it did stop women dying from abortions done at home. You know, if my mom hadn't said no to all the doctors wanting her to abort me(for medical reasons), I wouldn't be here. I have to think about how many people aren't here because of them being aborted. That's why I'm against it personally. Regardless, it should stay legal.

I'm pro-LGBT rights for so many reasons I don't have time to list them all. One everyone should get behind is separation of church and state. Even if your religion has you thinking homosexuality is a sin, it should be legal for them to be married in this country because that's what makes this country great. The same reason you can have any religious views you want is the same reason gay marriage should be legal. This is the land of the free.

Although someone needs to explain to Crater why the new medicare "sucks."

I'm likely not bothering to vote for either. Screw jury duty, not worth it for either candidate.
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Re: 2012 US Presidential Election

Postby Stranger » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:57 am

I am sorry that you find the post too long to read. Perhaps you will read it later, it is very interesting. I would love to see peoples reactions to it.
I like that you said both parties suck. I definitely agree with that.
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