Horrifying Plane Crash

[Hobo]

I've flown into Bagram 4 or 5 times. That's a cargo plane that, I believe, is based out of Michigan, but flies out of NY (Orchard Park?). Anyway, I believe 1 of 2 things likely happened. An elevator control malfunction pitching the plane into an overly uncommanded pitch up, or, more likely, the cargo broke loose, and everything slammed to the rear during the takeoff roll and acceleration. The pilots may not have noticed the shift during the takeoff roll down the runway, or it broke loose right as they rotated the nose up to liftoff. The suddenly ass-heavy plane was now way out of Center of Gravity forcing the tail down. The overly high pitch up, slowed the plane to a stall (loss of lift) and caused the wings to roll uncontrolably. As they accelerated downward, they got a bit of wind speed over the wings and ailerons (roll control), allowing the pilot to roll level just before impact.

No amount of elevator force forward would save them since the weight aft was too much to overcome. That's why weight and balance is so critical on aircraft. Even at 10,000 feet in the air, they would have been screwed, because although diving and speeding up helps, a descent was the only way they could speed up. They would have had to find a damn fast way to push the weight back forward and lock it down during a descent. Unlikely considering the weight of the cargo pallets and the sheer amount of cargo a 747 carries. Very sad.

WD I have a completely unrelated plane question for you. why is everyone forced to turn off their electronics before flight, and does airplane mode on your iPhone do anything at all?

[(SWGO) Shock]

Wow thats terrible! WD-40s explanation makes sense. Nobody deserves to die like that.

[WD-40]

WD I have a completely unrelated plane question for you. why is everyone forced to turn off their electronics before flight, and does airplane mode on your iPhone do anything at all?

That's a question that is wondered alot. The reason it came into being in the first place, is that the early cell phones we're 'analog' (the ones that cause brain cancer ) and played havoc interfering with aircraft communications and avionics in the cockpit.

Obviously, the fear still exists despite the fact cellphones are no longer analog (and haven't been for some time), however, 'Sat' phones still are a serious issue, and they come in all shapes and sizes. Not too long ago, a couple fellow pilots of mine on a Gulfstream 5 were flying over the Atlantic en route to Europe, when all the cockpit electronic flight displays suddenly went blank. All navigational and aircraft situation displays were wiped out! Thankfully, the standby gauges (older version 'mechanical' gauges) were still were operational. It was discovered that a passenger was using a portable Satellite cell phone. It was quickly turned off. The avionics were restored and the flight was without incident. Too many variables with electronics can cause havoc on an aircraft.

Only electronic built-in cell phones/satphones that are hard-wired into the aircraft's superstructure, tested, and approved by the FAA are permitted to be used while and aircraft is in flight. Yet they still allow 'portable' electronics to be used above 10,000 feet. Someone with a Sat phone is bound to cause a problem.

Regarding 'Airplane Mode', that simply turns off your iPhones ability to use cellphone and internet, thereby keeps it from 'Transmitting' a signal. It will still allow it to play videos/music, play games etc.

Thank you plane genius! Now, this video makes me feel even worse thinking that they were helpless in their last moments on this Earth.

Look make random posts and be silly all you want, but please remember you're talking about people who died here. Show some respect.

I saw nothing wrong with WorldFear's post here. Not sure why you attacked him for this.

[[m'kay]]

He might have taken the "plane genius" bit as sarcastic, and the post was pretty ignorant. WF could have phrased it better than that, it made me blink a little too.

[WD-40]

He might have taken the "plane genius" bit as sarcastic, and the post was pretty ignorant. WF could have phrased it better than that, it made me blink a little too.

Ohhh....If calling someone with a lot of experience a 'genius' was wrong...oh well...Obviously, I'm no genius, but that is my expertise. Maybe a better description of me would be "Aviation Conquistador'(?)

But in case anyone is wondering 'why' I have this insight, I've been a pilot (starting with the Navy) since 1985, Instructed as a Naval Aviator, I have type-ratings in L-188 (P-3 Orion), Dash 8s, Citation Encore, Citation 10, and Gulfstream 5 (GV), I'm a FAA Certified Single/Multi-Engine Instructor Pilot and an Instrument Instructor Pilot and have a Multi Engine Airline Transport Pilot Rating. I have over 1,500 pilot hours Single Engine, and over 5,500 pilot hours in Multi Engine. I fly the GV to this date.

As a side note, I heard thru the grapevine, that Bagram is getting rid of a lot of equipment, and someone believes that some 'humvees' or other equipment broke lose and rolled backwards during takeoff. If that was the case, and it's purely speculation, military humvees and personnel transports are heavier than [poo]. Those kinds of things would certainly screw up the balance of an aircraft if it shifts. Guess well have to see what the accident investigators find. Regarding the landing gear, no doubt they realized there was a problem as soon as they lifted off, as raising the landing gear was the last thing on their mind, nor would it have changed the outcome. It just would only have served as a distraction to raise the gear. Besides...hypothetically, if they somehow coulda scooped the descent out and gotten the speed, maybe...just maybe, they coulda landed it it at high gross weight on a long flat surface. Pure luck there.

[Hobo]

That's a question that is wondered alot. The reason it came into being in the first place, is that the early cell phones we're 'analog' (the ones that cause brain cancer ) and played havoc interfering with aircraft communications and avionics in the cockpit.

Obviously, the fear still exists despite the fact cellphones are no longer analog (and haven't been for some time), however, 'Sat' phones still are a serious issue, and they come in all shapes and sizes. Not too long ago, a couple fellow pilots of mine on a Gulfstream 5 were flying over the Atlantic en route to Europe, when all the cockpit electronic flight displays suddenly went blank. All navigational and aircraft situation displays were wiped out! Thankfully, the standby gauges (older version 'mechanical' gauges) were still were operational. It was discovered that a passenger was using a portable Satellite cell phone. It was quickly turned off. The avionics were restored and the flight was without incident. Too many variables with electronics can cause havoc on an aircraft.

Only electronic built-in cell phones/satphones that are hard-wired into the aircraft's superstructure, tested, and approved by the FAA are permitted to be used while and aircraft is in flight. Yet they still allow 'portable' electronics to be used above 10,000 feet. Someone with a Sat phone is bound to cause a problem.

Regarding 'Airplane Mode', that simply turns off your iPhones ability to use cellphone and internet, thereby keeps it from 'Transmitting' a signal. It will still allow it to play videos/music, play games etc.

awesome, thanks for the info. glad your buddy was okay. now I can browse the Internet on a plane without guilt.

[WD-40]

awesome, thanks for the info. glad your buddy was okay. now I can browse the Internet on a plane without guilt.

Actually, you can't. To browse, you must 'Transmit'. In 'airplane mode', you cannot. Airlines don't normally allow it...at least not without a 'cost' to your wallet. One of our GVs is specially modified to allow 'The Boss', and us to browse, because we are set up to allow it, without interfering with avionics. Sorry dude.

[CommanderOtto]

I was doing some reading and other people believe it was loose cargo just like WD said.

But in case anyone is wondering 'why' I have this insight, I've been a pilot (starting with the Navy) since 1985, Instructed as a Naval Aviator

just wondering, have you had the chance to fly a Lockheed f104 starfighter? I simply love the design of that plane! Or maybe that plane was already too old in 1985?

BTW, thanks for the explanation on why we can't use electronics on planes. It was pretty interesting.

[WD-40]

I was doing some reading and other people believe it was loose cargo just like WD said.

But in case anyone is wondering 'why' I have this insight, I've been a pilot (starting with the Navy) since 1985, Instructed as a Naval Aviator

just wondering, have you had the chance to fly a Lockheed f104 starfighter? I simply love the design of that plane! Or maybe that plane was already too old in 1985?

BTW, thanks for the explanation on why we can't use electronics on planes. It was pretty interesting.

The F-105 was already old by the time I started. Glad to offer info. Without having the perspective as to 'why' we can't use the stuff we love on aircraft, can be very frustrating. Hopefully, they can solve the problem someday.

I also should have mentioned why they allow electronics above 10,000 feet versus on takeoff and landing. A vast majority of all aircraft accidents occur during takeoff and landing, thus there is more risk to compounding an incident by allowing electronics during these phases of flight.

[CommanderOtto]

I was doing some reading and other people believe it was loose cargo just like WD said.

But in case anyone is wondering 'why' I have this insight, I've been a pilot (starting with the Navy) since 1985, Instructed as a Naval Aviator

just wondering, have you had the chance to fly a Lockheed f104 starfighter? I simply love the design of that plane! Or maybe that plane was already too old in 1985?

BTW, thanks for the explanation on why we can't use electronics on planes. It was pretty interesting.

The F-105 was already old by the time I started

that one also had a nice design. I guess I mostly love the f104 cause of this:



classic movie. Classic!!