Like THEY don't spy on us?! Lol! When I was in Moscow, my hotel room was so damn teched-up, I was getting a headache from all the signal propagation. Our cellphones were already compromised the moment we walked into the hotel. Countries 'spy' on other countries. It's expected.
What does Moscow have to do with the European Union? Russia isn't even part of it. Even if they were supposedly spying on your hotel room, it was located in a hotel located in their own country.
Like THEY don't spy on us?! Lol! When I was in Moscow, my hotel room was so damn teched-up, I was getting a headache from all the signal propagation. Our cellphones were already compromised the moment we walked into the hotel. Countries 'spy' on other countries. It's expected.
What does Moscow have to do with the European Union? Russia isn't even part of it. Even if they were supposedly spying on your hotel room, it was located in a hotel located in their own country.
it doesn't Matter... his point is that all countries spy. He was giving an example. He was a navy pilot...he KNOWS where Russia is.
and plus... Russia is a nation that spies A LOT on other countries.
Exactly Otto. Thanks. And this occurred as recently as 2 months ago, while there on Government business. We know many countries spy on us, even our allies, while we're oversea, as well as here in-country. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
WD-40 wrote:Exactly Otto. Thanks. And this occurred as recently as 2 months ago, while there on Government business. We know many countries spy on us, even our allies, while we're oversea, as well as here in-country. I'd be surprised if they didn't.
WD-40 wrote:
Darth Crater wrote:I do not watch TV news. I follow the BBC News website. Could you please stop dodging my question and provide some evidence, before we continue this conversation?.
Nope! Watch the news. My time is too valuable for that. I can lead a horse to water, but can't make it drink. YOU research it away from ignorant Brits.
Ignorant Brits you say, really?
I would say these videos sum-up what is happening how the US can be perceived now if it was in the Star-Wars Universe and now with Prism and Spying it's amusing, sad and quite worrying at the same time:
Obama the new Emperor?
How future Presidents might be perceived if this continues, no need to watch it all but it should give you an idea
And on a more serious note:
Michael V. Hayden, the former director of both the National Security Agency and the C.I.A:
“No. 1: The United States does conduct espionage,” Mr. Hayden said. “No. 2: Our Fourth Amendment, which protects Americans’ privacy, is not an international treaty. And No. 3: Any European who wants to go out and rend their garments with regard to international espionage should look first and find out what their own governments are doing.”
I am sure spying does happen everywhere however what has happened is that the USA have been exposed hence the disgust at the extent and depth of this amongst the allies. So rather than cement ties with EU you prefer to do the opposite and alienate them, why?
I see the constitution is being used whenever it is prudent to show that the US is under attack by everyonewhen it is highly unlikely this is actually happening. So not only are the fundamentalists against America, it's now the majority of the planet, really?
You came from the 'old world' and the 'new world' was formed, you won the war of Independance with your alliance with France against the British, the America Civil war brought the nation together and now the US is becoming the thing it dispised and liberty is failing and more scandals are appearing daily. All the power in your nation, the building blocks of freedom, democracy and diversity however this is crumbling to be replaced by scandal, corruption, the manufacture and readiness of war, covert intelligence/spying at home/abroad rather than peace and unity. This unfortunately seems to be the way forward or should it be backwards?
Scandals and contentious issues...think what you want, everyday America or make-believe?
Well Kren, you put an amateur Chicago Thug in charge, problems happen. 'Ignorant Brits' was too rough, ill admit, but that's an old post. Even the Germans and Brits spy on visiting Delegates and intelligence operatives. For the French Prez and German Chancellor to thump their chests crying 'foul' is just diplomatic show and BS. But they know theyre just as guilty...just havent had one of 'their own' screw them over like 'we' got screwed by that NSA Snowden guy who handled this all very questionably. Many say he's either a hero or a traitor. I'm not sure yet what he is, but I think he made poor decisions on how he handled it. Collecting data on our citizens for non-law enforcement reasons, to me, is wrong, and his divulging that has many arguing whether its right or wrong. However, his Releasing 'international' sensitive data (aka 'spying') about our Foreign Counter Intelligence activities is unpatriotic and traitorist. Apparently, he's about to release more intelligence data. Also, apparently, the Chinese already have it all, and kicked his sorry ass outta Hong Kong once they downloaded all his data. Once the Russians finish with him, they'll likely kick him out to 'look cooperative' to the U.S., and why not? By then he is just a liability to them and will be useless.
Outrider wrote:What does Moscow have to do with the European Union? Russia isn't even part of it. Even if they were supposedly spying on your hotel room, it was located in a hotel located in their own country.
it doesn't Matter... his point is that all countries spy. He was giving an example. He was a navy pilot...he KNOWS where Russia is.
and plus... Russia is a nation that spies A LOT on other countries.
First, as you clearly don't know, the European Union is actually an organization, not a geographical location. And second, yeah, it does 'matter.' European Union cry foul over U.S. spying on them. Brings up espionage-heavy Russia, a non-example of an EU nation, in an attempt to demonstrate that the European Union's complaints are hypocritical?! Why not bring up a country that is actually in the EU if all countries really do indeed spy? But sure, point taken. :s
Outrider wrote:First, as you clearly don't know, the European Union is actually an organization, not a geographical location. And second, yeah, it does 'matter.' European Union cry foul over U.S. spying on them. Brings up espionage-heavy Russia, a non-example of an EU nation, in an attempt to demonstrate that the European Union's complaints are hypocritical?! Why not bring up a country that is actually in the EU if all countries really do indeed spy? But sure, point taken. :s
As you clearly don't know, The European union Is an organization 'composed' of geographical locations (ie 'countries'). For them to cry foul is hypocritical because they do it themselves. Every country in the European Union and anywhere else wants to have any advanced information (or intelligence) they can get on what other countries plan on doing prior to going into any foreign policy meeting to have the advantage and plan accordingly. They can only hope they don't get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. Unfortunately, we have a traitor that helped them find out what we did and exposed us in a way not intended.
WD-40 wrote:As you clearly don't know, The European union Is an organization 'composed' of geographical locations (ie 'countries').
Yes, I am fully aware of that. Thanks for the reiteration. But you, on the other hand, still failed to mention an actual country in the EU that actually have instances of international spying. Russia may be known for spying, and may be located in Europe, but it is not a member of European Union.
WD-40 wrote:Every country in the European Union and anywhere else wants to have any advanced information (or intelligence) they can get on what other countries plan on doing prior to going into any foreign policy meeting to have the advantage and plan accordingly. They can only hope they don't get caught with their hands in the cookie jar.
If that is the case, then surely you can name a specific country in the European Union, the specific methodologies they used to acquire intelligence on the U.S., and the intelligence they acquired, right? But how can you if they haven't had their hands caught in the cookie jar yet? I agree that countries want dirt on other countries that they can use to their advantage, but wanting is not the same thing as having, so make hasty generalizations all you want, but the EU's complaints are valid until we have actual confirmation.
Has the US been caught 'publicly' before this? No. But Crater will find something, no er how small
How did they get caught? Snowden's big traitorist mouth.
How will we get another Foreign Country to admit they spy on other Counties too? Have one of their own spies jump on the wiki leaks bandwagon.
FYI: We as Government employees are 'highly discouraged' from 'actively' looking around a hotel room for bugs, etc. When we travel with a high ranking Government Appointee, we have to have rooms on both sides, above and below his room.
If we catch these bugs, as a rule, it is simply removed and the host country is not approached by it to AVOID an 'international incident'. They extended the same 'courtesy' to our Country...That is, until Snowden all but eliminated any discretion and made it 'public' for all the world to see. These Euro Countries had no choice but to denounce it 'publicly'.
Outrider, the fact that you ask for 'proof' in order to believe this or understand it means you don't really understand just 'how things really are' in the world regarding 'diplomacy'. I know thru experience because of my work.
I suppose giving you 'proof' that they don't spy on each other or us, would be the same as me asking you to 'prove' that they don't do it. Good luck with that. Short of a whistleblower, you won't. It wouldn't be (cough-cough) 'Diplomatic'.
er how small