Roe v. Wade (1973)

[Duel of Fates]

You must live to argue Pepsi. Why not start a thread about...... Favorite Sodas...... Right now mine would be Coke

It's sad that the law's passing is cause for celebration. How many innocent lives have been terminated since then?

I know everyone is worried about the rights of the individual but those terminated lives had rights too. The right to live.

how i think about it is that the irresponsible wimen that gets knocked up doesn't give a [poo] about the baby she wants to abort. that child is going to be neglected, or put into foster care, and most likely live a bad life with little to no support. yes, it may be murder, but is it really fair to that innocent baby to live a life being neglected and lonely for the majority of his/her life?

"yes, it may be murder"? But just because you believe their life will be bad or unhappy, let's get rid of them? Are you drunk? High? Or just that ignorant?

Public announcement: Don't let friends drink and post.

[Hobo]

I'm currently drunk on chamomile

IDK, i always thought having a kid required a lot of commitment and planning. personally, i don't think a kid should grow up being treated like an accident, and i don't think a bunch of "who gives a [m'kay]" mothers should be forced by law to have a child either to abandon, or treat like a waste of space. besides, i don't even believe abortion to be murder, it's the murder of a pregnancy, and it's not even painful for the fetus.

and seeing how i don't like arguing with people with attitudes like yours, I'm probably not going to respond to your next post, hope ur blood pressure doesn't get too high when you yell at pepsi. cya

[Duel of Fates]

Adoption. There are plenty of couples who cannot have children and would adopt.

You first call it murder, then say you do not believe it is murder. I really do not think you know wtf you are talking about. Enjoy your chamomile.

[Col. Hstar]

how i think about it is that the irresponsible wimen that gets knocked up doesn't give a [poo] about the baby she wants to abort. that child is going to be neglected, or put into foster care, and most likely live a bad life with little to no support. yes, it may be murder, but is it really fair to that innocent baby to live a life being neglected and lonely for the majority of his/her life?

So to shield a children from neglect it's more fair to kill them. I'm not being flip and trying not to be inflammatory. But who is anyone to think that they can deny that child the right to live their life. No one should have the right to kill someone because they think its best for the child. Least of all an irresponsible mother. In the tragic situation of a sexual assault, it may be hard for the mother but I've always believed that two wrongs won't may it right. That's my opinion though and I'm sure someone will get mad at it. Obviously it's different if the mother is in mortal danger. Then a doctor must do what he has to, to save the mother and hopefully the child too. I don't think it should be done as a preventative measure or because they think it could cause complications.

I have a friend who was surrendered at birth. She doesn't know her parents but she's grown up now and living a happy life. Would you say that she should have been denied the life she has now because it would have saved her the hardship of growing up in the foster system? Sure there are examples of children who turn to crime, or unfortunately suicide, but that happens to children with parents also. You can't save someone the pain of neglect by killing them.

We wouldn't even fathom killing children who are found neglected, lonely, and unsupported.

[Mandalore]

Out of curiosity Duel, have you ever adopted before?

Also, abortion should only be legal prior to the formation of the brain or if the child will have a debilitating illness from the onset of life that will make their quality of life next to zero. Also in cases of rape and arguably incest. Although incest by itself doesn't mean that it isn't consensual, just that it's [m'kay] up.

[Col. Hstar]

it's not even painful for the fetus.

I would like to know how you could possibly know this.

Also IF it is painless, why would you be worried about causing something that is not alive pain?

That an unborn child can feel pain implies that the child is alive.

[NiteRunner81]

Wow.... I'm glad you all have uteruses...

To be honest, I am against abortion. Having suffered 6-7 years TOTAL of infertility issues I believe adoption is a much better option. Especially with the scarcity of children in America available for adoption to loving couples who yearn for a child.

But I have a gripe about adoption: It wasn't up till my son was 9 months old that an adoption agency would touch us. They wouldn't even let us fill out a form till we had a permanent assurance that my father-in-law wouldn't be in the child's life. He was a drug abuser and neglected and abused his children. It didn't er that he NEVER knew where we lived after during the time we wanted to adopt. It didn't even er when he was in jail. The only thing we could do is get a legal restraining order (that you have to serve to him which we never could because we never knew where he was because he was on year long benders.) Because we could never serve him we had to wait till he died, and that was after I got my miracle.

Unfortunately the other problem with getting teens to consider adoption over the burden of parenting (which is NOT for all teens, some are NOT cut out for parenting) is the government incentives, rent vouchers, food stamps, WIC, cash benefits, and if you aren't with the father you can get DHS to get child support from him. Some teens choose to parent cause they get these incentives, and some parents push them to get these incentives.

[Duel of Fates]

Out of curiosity Duel, have you ever adopted before?

Yes. We adopted a boy. He is now five and a half. His biological mother was sixteen, "irresponsible", but responsible enough to consider, and reject abortion as a viable option.

And the government, local and state, made us jump thru hoops and pay huge amounts of money. They make it so tough to adopt, that unless you make the decision to do it, you would throw your hands in the air in frustration.

It is easier, cheaper, and less hassle to just abort a child than to adopt. Says a lot about the society we live in eh?

[[JOG]WorldFear]

You must live to argue Pepsi. Why not start a thread about...... Favorite Sodas...... Right now mine would be Coke

It's sad that the law's passing is cause for celebration. How many innocent lives have been terminated since then?

I know everyone is worried about the rights of the individual but those terminated lives had rights too. The right to live.

how i think about it is that the irresponsible wimen that gets knocked up doesn't give a [poo] about the baby she wants to abort. that child is going to be neglected, or put into foster care, and most likely live a bad life with little to no support. yes, it may be murder, but is it really fair to that innocent baby to live a life being neglected and lonely for the majority of his/her life?

Agreed. And also, for teen pregnancies, it's often the only way a girl can continue to live a normal life. If she has the baby, she will probably have to drop high school, not go to college, and the baby will not grow up in a safe environment with educated parents.

[(SWGO)SirPepsi]

Duel, "Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness" comes from the DoI, which isn't a governing document. Regardless, there's no definition there, and, simply put, "The Constitution means what a Supreme Court majority says it means." - Charles Evans Hughes, and according to [Fmr] Justice Blackmun, "The Constitution does not define "person" in so many words. ... [T]he Fourteenth Amendment contains three references to "person." The first, in defining "citizens," speaks of "persons born or naturalized in the U. S...” The word also appears both in the Due Process Clause and in the Equal Protection Clause.... [T]he use of the word is such that it has application only postnatally. None indicates, with any assurance, that it has any possible prenatal application.... [This] persuades us that the word "person," as used in the Fourteenth Amendment, does not include the unborn...."

This aside, my position is as follows - Abortion should be legal in cases of a) Rape or Incest, b) Life of the mother, or c) when the child has a debilitating illness - like (Bilateral) Renal Agenesis or IPEX Syndrome that leaves no hope for life (I added this after speaking to neonatologists)